Should separation from state and church include governments pretending there is no God whatsoever? What makes you think that?

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• Aren't they pretending to be more powerful than God then? Maybe I should add that I tend to believe God the Father is married to Mother Nature and they are One.

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  by StupidGirl on November 13th, 2009

• No, governments aren't pretending to be more powerful than God, they're just fulfilling their role in society... to manage the details of social and economic operations. If the government took a position about God, it would be favoring one group in society over others. That's not an appropriate bias for government to have.

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  by HasntBeen on November 14th, 2009

• "...to manage the details..."
  Is this true for all governments? Aren't some governments going just a little bit too far then? Like killing 1 000 000 million Middle Eastern people is not a 'detail' anymore in my eyes.
  -
  " If the government took a position about God, ..."
  Maybe they need to learn to respect Mother Nature then instead of God the Father? There's no denying her existence.

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  by StupidGirl on November 14th, 2009

• There is no evidence for the existence of an entity called "Mother Nature". Certainly there are natural laws and natural processes aplenty... nobody denies that, and yes, government should take that into account in its formation of policy and execution of processes. Also, killing people in the Middle East (or anywhere else) is morally questionable, and government should be mindful of moral constraints.
   
  But none of that means that government should endorse anybody's belief system about invisible beings. That is, and should rightly remain, a personal matter.

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  by HasntBeen on November 14th, 2009

• If that were held to there would be no Declaration of Independence or Constitution. I would see that as a negative.

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  by Cowboy-Matter of Fact on November 24th, 2009

• Why do you think that?

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  by HasntBeen on November 24th, 2009

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• Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
  -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
  
  History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
  -Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
  
  http://nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

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  by Moongrim on November 15th, 2009

• Not that I believe a word of the following (I do not), but since we are quoting Jefferson...
  "...it is impossible I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is in all this design, cause and effect up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the universe in its course and order... "-Letter to John Adams, a year before his death

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  by josie III on November 15th, 2009

• But WHICH superintending Power? And why is it necessary to have it worshipped by the government?
  
  Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;
  
  http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

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  by Moongrim on November 15th, 2009

• But the question was, "should the government pretend there is no God". Since some people in government clearly believe in God, and since Government is not an object, but a collection of people, then it is not possible for government to pretend there is no God. The only thing possible is for government to not be a "mouthpiece" for God, or for a particular church. If someone proposed a litmus test that politicians and bureaucrats had to swear that they were athiests, that person would be tossed out in the next election in most districts.

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  by josie III on November 15th, 2009

• And your reply:
  Separation of church and state is an open concept that the political left (statist rather than religious populist) uses to try to marginalize any reference to mystical religion in affairs of State.
  
  The political left does so in an effort to yank out that which political right keeps putting in.

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  by Moongrim on November 15th, 2009

• But the phrase "separation of church and state" is not present in official documents like the Constitution. It is a catch phrase that is often used by the left to disguise some of their nefarious schemes, just like "America is a Christian nation" is an unofficial catch phrase used by the right to disguise some of their nefarious schemes. That's all

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  by josie III on November 15th, 2009

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• What a great link! Thanks for that.

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  by Cyanotic Wasp on November 24th, 2009

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