Soldiers: Doesn't it bother You that You are killing people? If You've been to war, why have you gone there? Money? Adventure? Ego? Or do You actually believe You are doing something good by shooting to some people in remote countries?

This is Your belief that Afghanistan and Iraq
are fought for protection or freedom. Many people
don't approve of this war. And in my opinion
using the sentence "fighting hard for freedom"
while invading a foreign country is ridiculous.
I didn't approve of soldiers going to these
wars and fighting them.
.
This question was not meant to disrespect anyone,
nor talk about politics, but a genuine question
asking what such a soldier feels after killing
a person by the orders of a government.
.
I see, for many people, asking about killing people
by soldiers is a taboo question. Well that's Your
problem.

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

+4 AutismKnows. I disagree with you on many points, and only supported your DR because of the malicious nature of the question. I would hope you value free speech enough to have not DR'd instead simply because you don't share another's opinion. As with Anonymous however, I support your right to state your opinion without recourse. It is open criticism that had kept our country free.

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by Stepper on November 9th, 2009

I never dr anything here on AB but this question hit a spot. I realize that many people share my opinion and the opinion of Anonymous.
It was how the question was worded that bothered me. It felt as if this person was attacking soldiers in general (not the war). I do not agree with the most recent war that Bush has gotten the US into, however, there are many great things the Military does for our country. If you are upset about the war, that is great, I am too, but why would you choose to demean and downgrade the soldiers that are simply following orders from our government. I am sure many of them do not agree with the war either but they can not just simply walk away from the military. Sorry for the length of this. Just thought I would let you know the reason for my dr. I didn't want to be a hit and run dr. lol

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by Autism Knows is finally Maestro on November 9th, 2009

PS... Good point Stepper, however, because of the nature of the question I dr it. Everyone has an opinion, I agree, but the question seemed as if it was worded to degrade and humiliate, which was obviously not what Anonymous intended but thats what it sounded like, thats all.

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by Autism Knows is finally Maestro on November 9th, 2009

@Autism Knows
Maybe I used the wrong words.
.
As for the rest, read the answer that Stepper gave.
Especially the 2nd and 3rd paragraph. That's the
answer to:
"(...) but why would you choose to demean and
downgrade the soldiers that are simply following
orders from our government. I am sure many of them
do not agree with the war either but they can not
just simply walk away from the military. (...)"

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

Gotcha' I just read his answer. :o)Sorry bout' that. I thought you were intentionally trying to be mean. haha...Imagine that!

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by Autism Knows is finally Maestro on November 9th, 2009

That's exactly the thing with the "just doing their job".
"So why did You start the job?" is the question and
"why don't You quit?".
.
Maybe I did write it not exactly the correct way.
But I actually mean to understand all this.
.
As for the information, I don't know how could I get
this information, if everyone seems to be saying
something different, so seems like someone here
is lying, but WHO? I don't believe all those wars
are for "good of the people". (whatever that means)
I'm willing to believe it's for political and
economical reasons.
.
But how am I supposed to research it, if You can't
know which source is not subjectively manipulating
the information?
If You have such a comprehensive source that is
as objective as possible on the topic, then please
direct me to it.

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

OK, I do like your answer better. lol There are many soldiers that do get out of line and are punished but many many more that do so and are not properly reprimanded, or not at all.

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by Autism Knows is finally Maestro on November 9th, 2009

BTW, Stepper. Where do YOU get Your information from?

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by Anonymous T on November 19th, 2009

No one source. I read a lot, and among the many topics I concentrate on are American history, Greco-Roman history and world governments. If you are interested in the foundations of American democracy, I would start with it's pioneering figures: Jefferson, Locke, Hume...etc. I am often surprised how little people have read of these brilliant men. You Are probably familiar with Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens), though you probably stopped at Huckleberry Finn. He wrote extensively on politics, American Life, and foreign relations. I am also a fan of 20th century American Philosopher Noam Chomsky.

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by Stepper on November 19th, 2009

I would strongly advise you however never to place much trust in any one source of information (though it seems as if you are cautious not to do this anyway). Human fallibility almost guarantees any one opinion to be flawed in one way or another. Force yourself to learn the views of those whom you disagree with, and try to develop a frame of reference that allows you to make sense of them. Take an interest in history, and learn from it. I have a particular interest in the Second World war. Santayana's quote "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" is one of the truest I've heard.

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by Stepper on November 19th, 2009

From the things You mentioned I know about Chomsky's studies
and the implications in general. I didn't read His books as
such, only read about the concepts He was talking about
and those that emerge from them.
I've also read many other psychological, sociological,
philosophical and economical works from various sources.
.
As to not trusting one source (or for that matter even
many) I am aware of it. If You haven't read it,
"The Art of Controversy" by Arthur Schopenhauer is
a good book for learning about defending against
manipulation through words.
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/controversy/
Also studying the cognitive biases is useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
.
And I do force myself to learn the views of those whom
I disagree with, that's the only honest way to be sure
You are not being wrong. That's why I don't have anything
against even very heated discussions that go near or
slightly into insults. By talking to such people I either
find they are right (if they are capable to logically
explain it) and I didn't know something or I find the
thing THEY are wrong about and learn how to present
it, so that it becomes obvious it's wrong.
(Of course some are so deeply brainwashed that they
aren't capable of questioning some of their beliefs.)
.
But what I was refering to more, is not the general idea
of how to know who is right and who is not and about far
history, but specifically about things happening right now
or recently. As much as history can be falsified - which
was proven once and again when some countries revealed the
real history and apologized only after some 50 years, while
actively denying it until then despite all proof; and others
deny history until this day - more so can the present be
falsfied according to the goals of some individuals.
What I ask is the present wars.
.
How do I know that everything that is on TV/radio/newspapers
isn't misinformation? How do I know the politicians aren't
lying? How do I know that most of the journalists aren't
set up? How do I know the military intelligence isn't lying
and even if they are not, then how do I know the truth
is not warped or twisted by the politicians?
For me to be sure I would have to go to those countries
and risk death, see what's happening, find the people from
the opposite side, hear their story and only then decide.
I'm not going to do that, but there are some people who
go there. And You hear different stories.
So if I hear some voices that are trying to tell the
story that is against the mainstream, how do I know
whether they are telling the truth or the mainstream
version supported by the US government? Some people
say they are making stuff up (conspiracy theories),
and that the US government is there on a messianic
mission, to "save the world and make it a better
place" and other people say it's all about cash
and power, while the rest is just made up PR excuse.
I know why would the government lie, but why would
the others lie? Are they the agents sabotaging social
opinions through spreading desinformation, are they
just misinformed, or are they there to make the current
political party lose support from the population?
Any other reasons? Or maybe they are telling the truth,
just that no one is able to shut them up, so they are
just saying they are "conspiracy theories" and laughing
them off, so as to discredit them in the face of gullible
people (I would bet there are people in the intelligence
whoes only job is to scout the internet and discredit
people leaking inconvenient information to the public)
and by the fact they haven't got such tools for spreading
information as the media, they are doomed to be unpopular?
.
Just how do YOU figure this one out?

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by Anonymous T on November 20th, 2009

I know not every soldier kills. But by joining the military
You are accepting the probability You may be commanded to
kill people (possibly some that didn't deserve it) and forced
to do it unless You want to stand trail for insubordination.
I don't actually know what kind of penalty is there for
refusing an order.
.
I also heard many people going for such wars as in Iraq
and Afghanistan are actually volunteers. It might depend
on the country of origin of the soldier. I don't know
how it is in the USA. What would be the penalty if you
refused to go to war?
.
And another question "We can't help it if our political
leaders decide they want to illegally invade a foreign
nation." I could understand that... but the question
still remains, does it not bother the soldier that
WAS in combat and DID kill people in a country that
was invaded for political and economic reasons, that
He travelled to a remote country and shot or blew
up some guy?
.
What does such a guy feel after that? Anything?

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

In America the entire Armed Services are volunteer. Very few volunteer to go to war, most just volunteer to serve. The penalty for a service person to refuse to go to war is a court marshal and jail.
.
As to your question about the soldier being bothered by his actions, yes we are bothered by it. Nightmares, flashbacks, the inability to communicate with civilians(especially wives and children), are just a few of our "keepsakes."

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by ConservativelyLiberal on November 9th, 2009

But how long is this jail time?
.
And I don't mean to insult anyone, I'm just honestly trying
to understand the mentality and reasoning behind it all.
I've seen some very disturbing things on the internet and
I'm trying to figure out how does one choose a path that
could lead to personally witnessing some of these things
and who is able to stay on this path, even after all
He/(She) has done and seen. What kind of explanations
for all this does the person keep in His mind
to go on?
.
I've also been always curious, how is it possible to stop
being a soldier. I assume it's impossible to do so during
the war while You are abroad, but what about if You get back? Can You quit the military and if so, how fast or on what conditions is it possible?

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

That's what I wanted to know and sorry if I have
written it in a possibly offensive way. Maybe it's
because these wars kind of upset me and I don't
fully understand what drives people to the military
and into obedience that requires them to kill.
So I must have projected this into the question.
.
Anyway I try to imagine what happens in the minds
of soldiers. I believe not all of them believe that
these military interventions are necessary and that
these orders are for the good of anyone, just for
the political and economical agendas of the politicians
and possibly the upper command of the military.
.
I can't seem to get a place where I can get objective
enough information, that I can trust, so who knows
the real purpose of all this.
.
And I'm trying to imagine becoming a soldier, thinking
that I'm going to shoot some random people, because the
guys from my government want to have money from heroin
produced from the opium in Afghanistan, or for some
fake reason to attack Iraq.

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

And I'm thinking what would I feel when
I'm standing in some desert with a machine
gun and shooting some people because some
assholes from the government want to have
drug money, oil, or a military outpost
for controlling the surrounding territories
in order to force people to become like
them or simply to get military power,
money from selling guns to both sides,
or money from local investements.
.
And I'm wondering what kind of explanations
would I give myself to start that and what
would I do to keep going on in this.

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

OK now I'm following. The discipline, training, practice, lack of individual identity, focus on the unit, the greater good from day one is repetitive. Over and over again so that when or if the time comes you react in such a way as to protect the unit. The person on either side of you depends as much on you as you do on them-unity, family and they depend on you following orders because they will and their success depends on you, yours on them. Though all are individuals the contribution of each individual while in the field is a contribution to the life welfare and protection of the family, the unit. A ship is the sailors life. He/she cannot survive in the sea hence all hands are depended upon to protect their salvation from the sea.
It's a unity thing. Does this help?

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by tominhouston on November 9th, 2009

I could understand how could one "switch off"
from this. But how can one explain it to themselves
in the first place that they need to allow themselves
to "switch off" and maybe even serve a totally
undeserving, if not an "evil" purpose.
It's like protecting Yourself in the place You
shouldn't have gone to. Abusing an internal
system in the wrong context.
.
Doesn't it cross Your mind that often You are doing
it for Mr. Bush, Mr. Obama or Mr. General #1, or
Mr. Senator #5 or Mr. Corporation Owner #27 and that
no one is getting any profit from it besides them and
that for this purpose You are walking in peoples
backyards, intimidating them, forcing a new government
onto them and then shooting some of those people that
also have families, wifes, children, friends.
Is there no question: "What explanation do I have
for killing these people? Money?"
.
Is there no feeling of guilt that You allowed
Yourself to be a part of it and are being used,
by these people who order people to murder
each other for the purpose of money and power?

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by Anonymous T on November 9th, 2009

I was in Viet-Nam to me and others that I know that was clear.
As to Iraq and Afghanistan...? Our biggest complaint is not why we fought but how we fought.
I don't know. This involves someones religion and anybody has the right to worship whatever they choose however they choose. But when one faction starts blowing up innocent civilians, non- combatants in an effort to force their interpretation of their holy book on another faction I think a line needs to be drawn. The mistake that the US made in Afghanistan was to cut off the flow of support after the Russians left. When US support ended the vacuum was filled by the Taliban. Taliban government is like Chairman Mao's government, from the barrel of a gun.
I wish there was an easy answer acceptable to each individual concience.

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by tominhouston on November 9th, 2009

So let me get this straight. You went to Viet-Nam, because
"There would be the 'Domino Effect', the communists would flood
the world and we would all die". Did You actually believe this?
Do You still do? Do You think that stopping the alleged Communism
flood was enough of a reason to spawn a large war? Would You
go to Viet-Nam again?
.
In case of Afghanistan, because: "A small group of freaks flew
a plane into two building killing a few thousand people,
so we have to retaliate by occupying the whole country."
.
And in case of Iraq, because: "They 'have' weapons of mass
destruction and they are going to attack us".
Or maybe because there were some civil wars and the USA
government decided to side with one of the sides, while
there is no real knowledge as to what was going on.
.
I am wondering on the information and analysis according to
WHOM do the soldiers develop their opinions. And why do You
trust these people so easily? Doesn't it ever cross Your mind
that these people might be... LYING?

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by Anonymous T on November 15th, 2009