What do the military do in a civil war?

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

• Is that from your years of experience in the military?

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on August 25th, 2009

• Clearly yes. But it is from my experiences with the military of other countries and to a certain extent the soldiers of our army would act the same way.
  Soldiers are trained to follow orders and not to ask.
  Their opinion does never count.

  • Report
  

  by Frederik on August 25th, 2009

• You're wrong. The US Military is not a bunch of brainless automatons. They are taught to obey "LAWFULL" orders that don't conflict with the laws of war and the UCMJ. Not shooting unarmed civilians is mentioned several times. Try a little reading.

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on August 26th, 2009

• Sorry, I was of course not talking of the British or US Forces.
  Certainly I know that these forces are well known to obey only to lawfull orders and that they highly respect the UCMJ.
  Being German I was of course only talking of German or Russian troops which you can not compare to the high standards of British and American forces.
  We only know the Geneva convention.
  So, many excuses please.

  • Report
  

  by Frederik on August 26th, 2009

• The Geneva convention covers killing of civilians. As does the laws of armed conflict. "The law of war is binding not only upon States as such but also upon individuals and, in particular, the members of their armed forces." They don't go over that with you guys?

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on August 26th, 2009

• Sorry, I am only a very inferior German soldier having been to any conflict in the world where my government thougth sending me and so know Asia as well as Africa and the minor conflict in Afghanistan and I just came back last week, so I think we Germans never will understand the extreme superior philosophy of the US and British.
  We Germans are just too stupid and as a completely inferior and rather useless member it is not up to us to have any opinion about all these important developments. You should not forget that we are fools and therefore you will see that we will make a very quick withdrawal from anywhere because we are are deeply fed up being the fool since ever.
  Being German our opinion never counts and we know that and therefore we let the more intelligent and superior people like the British and Americans do as they like.
  We know that we are underdogs.

  • Report
  

  by Frederik on August 26th, 2009

• Fred, you said in your earlier post that "soldiers are trained to follow orders and not to ask." Aren't you aware that the "I was just following orders" defense doesn't work? The "Nuremberg Defense" doesn't work anymore.

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on August 31st, 2009

• You should ask this question the soldiers at Abu Ghraib, Guantanomo and all the other US military prisons, including their leading generals.
  I for myself see things quite different and I did and I would refuse any order which might be against the rules of humanity and the laws.
  I agree with the Nuremberg rules that you can not divide human rights. Either we all have human rights or none of us has them.

  • Report
  

  by Frederik on August 31st, 2009

• The Abu Ghraib soldiers were disciplined. (some of them anyway). Their defense of "I was just following orders" didn't work.
  Guantanomo is a whole different ball of wax to deal with and right now, everything is just allegations.
  This whole thread started because you said, "Military are trained and used to follw any kind of order, whatever the orders may be.
  So, they would shoot without any hesitation against their own people." I'm merely disagreeing with you on that point.

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on August 31st, 2009

• Having the same job I am deeply shocked that these things could ever happen and America and Britain will have to live with this shame.
  It is for me a clear failure of the officers and the whole military hierarchy.
  I agree with you about the trial of Nuremberg and I deeply regret that only so few were hanged.
  Being long enough in this business I have my utmost doubts that people did learn from Nuremberg and looking after all the events after Nuremberg I think people did not want to learn. I remember of My Lai which was usual in Vietnam and about the atrocities the French did before and in Algeria which was on the same level as German special police forces used to work.
  And I have seen what happened in former Yugoslavia from the very first day because I was one of those who took part in investigating day after day the mass graves for the Court at The Hague.
  And you see that only a few got condemned.
  I have my doubts because I've seen too much.

  • Report
  

  by Frederik on August 31st, 2009

• Because you have seen it happen, doesn't mean you should automatically assume it will in the future.

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on August 31st, 2009

• It happened always as much as they hoped it would not.
  I a not optimistic to the future in this topic.
  I think mankind will never get completely over these atrocities.
  It will happen each time from anew.

  • Report
  

  by Frederik on September 1st, 2009

• One bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.

  • Report
  

  by Hardcore Conservative on September 1st, 2009