by larry posey on March 9th, 2007

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Runners on first and second base. Batter hits ground ball to shortstop. Shortstop waits to tag runner but runner goes back to second base now occupied by runner from first base. Second base is now occupied by 2 runners. Is the lead runner out?

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Answers. 8 helpful answers below.

by rockme on March 16th, 2007
The short stop has to tag or bag. The safest thing would be throw and tag third. The runner may have saved a double play unless the short stop went ahead and threw to another base to pick up the double play instead of waisting his time watching... the guy that was supposed to be on third can't occupy second legally...
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by Old School on March 9th, 2007
[Edit]

I have now completely changed my Answer based on feedback from other answers and a further reading of the rules of baseball. I believe rule 7.08e is the governing rule in this situation.

From: http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp

7.08
Any runner is out when --

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;

In short, the lead runner *must* advance to third base *unless* the runner behind him is first put out (by tag or by force play at second). Otherwise, the lead runner is put out by a tag or a throw to third base. Standing on second base does not protect the lead runner from being put out.
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- How do you interpret OBR 7.01 where it says a runner must vacate a base if forced to do so?
  
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  by tibear on March 13th, 2007
- See additional comment under my answer as to why R1 is entitled to second base and R2 as you indicate.
  
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  by tibear on March 13th, 2007
- Tibear --- You're right. I edited my answer to reflect rule 7.08e
  
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  by Old School on May 3rd, 2007
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by tibear on March 13th, 2007
R1 is entitled to the base because of rule 7.01 OBR:

7.01 A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Since the batter hit the ball to the shortstop, the runner on second(R2) was forced to vacate the base because of a preceeding runner, thus R2 loses his "right" to second and must move to third.

As stated in the comments section, there are other rules in OBR that confirm R2 is out in this instance.
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- The two rules mentioned do seem to contradict each other at first glance. My interpretation (which may well be wrong) is that the runner on 1st base, while forced to run to 2nd, is not entitled to the base until he touches it; at the same time, the lead runner remains entitled to 2nd base until he is either put out while running to 3rd or touches 3rd. Just moving from 2nd base does not relinquish his "right" to that base should he choose to return there, irrespective of him being forced to run by the following runner, and when the runner from 1st is standing there as well then rule 7.03 comes into play to cover the situation. Honestly though, the lead runner should be making it to 3rd easily here while the fielding team is turning the double play at 2nd and 1st!
  
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  by TheKnife V2.1 - Grandiose and Obnoxious on March 13th, 2007
- It's interesting because I've always been taught and read that in this situation, R1 is entitled to 2nd base when the ball is hit. However, it doesn't mean that R2 can't return to 2nd.
  
  For example, if runners on 1st and 2nd. Ball hit to F4 who tags R1 before getting to second thus taking off the force on R2. If F4 throws to F5 trying to tag R2 at third, R2 may return to 2nd because R1 is no longer the rightful holder of 2nd base.
  
  Interesting question, I may post this onto other umpire websites and get their insight.
  
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  by tibear on March 13th, 2007
- 7.08(e) also talks about force situation and I think it clearly indicates that R2(runner starting at second base) is out.
  
  Definition of a Force in OBR(section 2)is:a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
  
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  by tibear on March 13th, 2007
- Tibear --- I agree with you. Rule 7.08e appears to govern the situation. Thanks for the correction. Gave your answer +3.
  
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  by Old School on May 3rd, 2007
- thanks
  
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  by tibear on May 3rd, 2007
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by TheKnife V2.1 - Grandiose and Obnoxious on March 9th, 2007
Neither runner is out unless they are tagged out; just by sharing the same base does not put either runner out. However if neither of them moves from 2nd base, the 2nd runner can be tagged out even though he is on the base because the lead runner has precedence over the base as OldSchool says.
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by YAZ on May 2nd, 2007
Irrespective of the base (2nd or 3rd), the following runner is always out when the same base is occupied by two runners. The only conceivable exception to this would be if the lead runner were actually forced to advance but chose rather to retreatto avoid a tag attempt. In this instance, tagging him on the base which is now occupied by two players would result in him being ruled out.
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- The exception you sighted is the exact situation described and you are correct the lead runner would indeed the runner declared out.
  
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  by tibear on May 3rd, 2007
- Whoooaa...
  
  What happened to the question I thought I was answering???
  
  Was there a question almost identical to this one - without the mention of runners on first and second... or was I dreaming when I wrote this!!!
  
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  by YAZ on May 3rd, 2007
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by ab19901 on March 16th, 2007
There are more than 100 contradictions in the Official Baseball Rulebook and this is one of them.

A runner who is forced to advance by virtue of the batter becoming a runner loses his right to his base until the force is removed. In this case, R2 is forced to advance and no longer entitled to second base. If R2 retreats and he and R1 both are on the bag, R2 is the runner who is out if tagged.
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by Brotwurst on May 1st, 2007
This is close to a situation we had in a Little League game this weekend. Runner on first and second. Ground ball to the second baseman who stepped on second. Being kids, the runner on second never left second and was not tagged. The runner coming from first was called out on the force. The umpire ruled that the runner who never budged from second was still safe on second. We think it was because the force on him was now off with the runner from first now out. Thoughts on this call?
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by Brotwurst on May 1st, 2007
This is close to a situation we had in a Little League game this weekend. Runner on first and second. Ground ball to the second baseman who stepped on second. Being kids, the runner on second never left second and was not tagged. The runner coming from first was called out on the force. The umpire ruled that the runner who never budged from second was still safe on second. We think it was because the force on him was now off with the runner from first now out. Thoughts on this call?
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- This was the correct call because as soon as F4 touched second base that eliminated the force of the original runner on second to go to third.
  
  If F4 had touched the runner on second (even if the runner was standing on the base) and then tagged the base, he would have had a double play.
  
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  by tibear on May 2nd, 2007
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Question

Runners on first and second base. Batter hits ground ball to shortstop. Shortstop waits to tag runner but runner goes back to second base now occupied by runner from first base. Second base is now occupied by 2 runners. Is the lead runner out?

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Question

Runners on first and second base. Batter hits ground ball to shortstop. Shortstop waits to tag runner but runner goes back to second base now occupied by runner from first base. Second base is now occupied by 2 runners. Is the lead runner out?

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