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by MistahPotato on March 3rd, 2007

MistahPotato

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If God made us, how come he can punish us for any sins? Isn't it the same as destroying something because it did what you created it to do?

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  • by killdrphil - reasonable for a madman on August 7th, 2007

    killdrphil - reasonable for a madman

    I know what you are saying and it's a very valid point. For instance, if I invented something, and, then it broke down or didn't work right, I wouldn't blame the invention. I would blame myself for screwing it up.

    But then Christians will say, "But. There is freewill. Humans have freewill". Yeah, yeah, but, the point is God knew Adam and Eve wouldn't be able to resist. Since He knows all. So if what happened in the Garden of Eden is true, it was a classic case of entrapment.

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  • by Twhupfold on August 7th, 2007

    Twhupfold

    Yes, it is exactly the same as destroying something because it did what you created it to do ; )

    We have been created broken and commanded to be fixed.

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  • by singwell-is off researching a lot on March 3rd, 2007

    singwell-is off researching a lot

    He did not create us to sin, but to enjoy the earth under his authority. Sin is rebellion against Him, and the belief that we can run this earth better than He can. Clearly, from the mess we have made, we cannot. Has he the right to punish us? Sure He has. Your mum and dad had the right to punish you for rebellion. So does God, on a grander scale...but God is even better than that. He sent His own Son Jesus, to take the punishment for us, so that, if we acknowledge our rebellion and ask Him to forgive us, we can have our sins "thrown as far as the east is from the west". That is called mercy.

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  • by Dr.Tso on August 7th, 2007

    Dr.Tso

    Yes indeed. Well consider the following questioning. God should have created everything, right? Therefore he has created the specific nature (or desire) that make Adam and Eve to sin. Thus did he create the specific desire for us to do something? Did he create all essential element that will certainly make us sin or do something he didn't want us to do so? If no, then God would not be the creator of everything. Therefore we have no choices.

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  • by Amy on November 13th, 2008

    Amy

    (By the way, I apologize for the length of this. I summarized it at the top here).


    We were made for God's love. We were made for a relationship with Him. Intimacy with Him (in which we can enjoy His love). Fellowship with Him. Friendship with Him. We were made to be with Him, for eternity. (As well as some other things I'll talk about below).

    That's basically what it's all about: love and relationship. God gave us free will (wanting to give us freedom to choose whether to love God and follow Him or to turn against Him) and we chose to turn against Him, reject Him, sever the relationship. It didn't just shatter the relationship between God and His children, but the "sin bomb" set off in the garden shattered even nature itself.

    So God sent his son Jesus to take our place on the cross and pay the penalty for our sins, restore the relationship, cleanse us from "all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9), and bridge the gap between Him and His people. He came to make it possible for us to have eternal life with Him in His heavenly Kingdom (where "he'll wipe every tear from our eyes. Death is gone for good--tears gone, crying gone, pain gone--all the first order of things gone."~Revelation 21:4)--and have an abundant, fulfilled life on earth. "I have come so that you might have life and have it to the full."~Jesus

    All that He is waiting for is for us to reach out our hand and call out to Him.


    I believe that


    GOD MADE US...


    1) TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM SO WE COULD ENJOY HIS LOVE. (see Dinner With A Perfect Stranger, By David Gregory, or the wonderful movie based on it: The Perfect Stranger)


    2) TO EXPRESS HIS LOVE TO US. (See The Purpose Driven Life, by Rick Warren).


    3) TO BE WITH HIM. "God wants you with him. It's why he made you in the first place."~David Gregory


    4) FOR INTIMACY WITH HIM. A relationship with God (I speak from experience) is a deep, rich, intimate, wonderful experience. In fact, there is no greater thing in my life than my relationship--and intimacy with--God. And there is nothing more I need in this world. It is, after all, what I was created for.
    __God knows us intimately. In Psalms 139:14, it says that we are "uniquelly and wonderfully made", in the NLT version, "wonderfully complex." The word "wonderful" in the original language means "marvelous", "set apart." You are "marvelous" and "set apart"! God *knit* you together in your mother's womb: ""Where shall I flee from your presence? For you formed my inmost parts [or "you made all the delicate, inner parts of my body"]; you knit me together in my mother's womb."~Psalms 139:13. He formed you with His own love. You are his beautiful/handsome, cherished, special, loved, special, unique, adored, desired, pursued, marvelous, creation! He knows you inside and out. Better than you know yourself! "O LORD, you have searched me and you know me." He desires intimate fellowship with you.
    __And he desires to be intimately known.  "God deeply desires that we know him intimately. In fact, he planned the universe and orchestrated history, including the details of our lives, so that we could become his friends. The Bible says, 'He made the entire human race and made the earth hospitable, with plenty of time and space for living so we could seek after God, and not just grope around in the dark but actually *find* him.'"~Rick Warren


    5) TO LIVE FOR HIM AND EXPERIENCE THE JOY OF HIS PRESENCE EVERY DAY.
    __Someone asked Billy Graham once: "Why did God put us here? I know this seems like a simple question, but sometimes I wonder if my life has any purpose to it, or if I'm just here to have a good time. What do you think?" — M.C.
    __"No, God didn't put us here just to indulge ourselves or have a good time (at least in the way you probably mean it). God put us here for a purpose—and that purpose is to live for Him and experience the joy of His presence every day. 
    __"The problem is, God wants to be at the center of our lives--but so do we. We want to run our own lives and be free to do anything we please because we think that must be the path to happiness. But when we live only for ourselves, we find it doesn't bring us happiness after all. In fact, a life of self-indulgence only leads to emptiness. The Bible warns, 'There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death' (Proverbs 14:12). 
    __"But God has another way for us—His way! It alone is the way of peace, and it alone will bring us true happiness. Not only that, but His path alone will lead us to heaven. What is that way? It is the way of the cross—Christ's cross. On the cross Christ took away all our sins and selfishness, and now He wants to come into our lives and replace them with His love. "Jesus said, 'I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full' (John 10:10). Turn to Christ today and ask Him to come into your life. Then ask Him to begin changing you from within—and He will, as you yield your life to Him and allow His Word, the Bible, to shape your life every day."


    6) TO BE IN A FRIENDSHIP WTIH HIM. God wants to be your best friend. He *yearns* to be your friend. "The Bible says, 'He is a God who is passionate about his relationship with you.'" "I have called you friends" Jesus said. "The word for 'friend' in this verse means...a close, trusted relationship. The same word is used to refer to the best man at a wedding and a king's inner circle of intimate, trusted friends. In royal courts, the King's inner circle of trusted friends enjoy close contact, direct access, and confidential information"~Rick Warren. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 says "We're speaking for Christ himself now: Become friends with God; he's already a friend with you. How? you say. In Christ. God put the wrong on him who never did anything wrong, so we could be put right with God."
    __"You can have a friend who sticks closer than a brother. Jesus Christ can make life joyful, satisfying and glorious to you. ...But you must repent, surrender and commit your heart and life to Christ. Let Him forgive your past sins, and He will take you into His family; He will bring you to the hearth, and you will feel the warmth of the fire. If you are lonely today, I beg you, come to Christ and know the fellowship that He brings. ...With Christ as your Savior and constant Companion, you, too—although alone—need never be lonely."~The Answer To Loneliness by Billy Graham

    "And surely I am with you alw ays, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:20


    7) FOR HIS PLEASURE. "The Lord takes pleasure in His people." Psalm 149:4a (NLT). He delights in you. You bring enjoyment to God. "If you are that important to God, and he considers you valuable enough to keep with him for eternity, what greater significance could you have? You are a child of God [if you have recieved Christ], and you bring pleasure to God like nothing else he has ever created. The Bible says, 'Because of his love God had already decided that through Jesus Christ he would make us his children--this was his pleasure and purpose."~Rick Warren.


    8) FOR HIM, AND FOR HIS PURPOSE. And, as Rick Warren said, our life's purpose "fits into a much larger purpose He has designed for eternity."


    9) FOR HIS GLORY. What is God's glory? "God's glory is who God is. It is the essence of his nature, the weight of his importance, the radiance of his splendor, the demonstration of his power, the atmosphere of his presence..the expression of his goodness and all his other qualities."~Rick Warren


    10) FOR HIS FAMILY. "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." ~John 1:12 (NIV)


    11) TO BECOME LIKE CHRIST. "God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son...we see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him." (Romans 8:29) "We look at this son and see God's original purpose in everything created." (Colossians 1:15) "The image is incomplete and has been damaged and distorted by sin. So God sent Jesus on a mission to restore the full image that we have lost."~Rick Warren. (Read his The Purpose Driven Life, for more).


    12) FOR A MISSION. (See the bestselling book, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren).


    GOD GAVE US FREE WILL..WE TURNED AGAINST HIM AND SEVERED THE RELATIONSHIP...SO JESUS CAME TO RESTORE IT...AND RESTORE US

    "When God first created the human race, He made them completely free. In other words, they were not puppets; they had the freedom to choose whether to love God and follow Him or to turn against Him. Since that awful time in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve decided to turn away from God, the human race has been infected with a spiritual disease—a disease the Bible calls "sin."~Billy Graham. So God sent his Son, Jesus, to take our place on the cross and pay the penalty for our sins--bridging the gap between God and people. "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ." 1 Timothy 2:5 (NIV) "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God." 1 Peter 3:18 (NIV)
    __"[God] created people to have a relationship with him, to enjoy his love. But humanity rejected God and severed that relationship. His program is putting it back together." ~David Gregory
    __"In Eden, we see God's ideal relationship with us: Adam and Eve enjoyed intimate friendship with God. There were no rituals, ceremonies, or religion--just a simple loving relationship between God and the people he created. Unhindered by guilt or fear, Adam and Eve delighted in God, and he delighted in them. 
    __"You were made to live in God's continual presence, but after the fall  that ideal relationship was lost. 
    __"...Then Jesus changed the situation. When he paid for our sins on the cross, the veil in the temple that symbolized our separation from God was split from top to bottom, indicating that direct access to God was once again available. ...We can now approach God at anytime. The Bible says, 'Now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God--all because of what our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us in making us friends of God."


    HE OFFERS US ETERNAL LIFE...
    __If you have received Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior--by admitting your need (I am a sinner), being willing to turn from your sins (repenting), believing that Jesus Christ died for you on the Cross and rose from the grave, and inviting Jesus to come into your life--you can look forward to your everlasting home in Heaven with God, where "he'll wipe every tear from our eyes. Death is gone for good--tears gone, crying gone, pain gone--all the first order of things gone."~Revelation 21:4 You will live forever with God in paradise.
    __Time on earth is brief. Earth, a temporary residence (see The Purpose Driven Life). For Christians, we are citizens of heaven. This world is not our home. We (all of us) were created for something so much better. We're preparing for something even better. This is not the end of the story. We're not home yet.
    __And in addition to eternal life in Heaven with Him, Jesus came so that we could have a fulfilled, abundant life here on earth. "I have come so that you might have life and have it to the full."~Jesus
    __ "...You are important in the sight of God. He says, 'You are precious to me ... and I love you' (Isaiah 43:4, TLB). The very reason Jesus Christ came to earth to offer Himself in sacrifice is so that we might have life in all its fullness, and it is His desire that we be set free from depression, fear, frustration, and hurt so that we might experience this abundant life."~Billy Graham
    __Jesus is what fills your emptiness, what gives your life meaning and purpose, what is the source of fulfilling, unending love, the source of contentment in whatever circumstances, what will end your loneliness, where you find abounding comfort during pain, the way to true happiness, peace, and joy, what will give you hope and everlasting life in a place where all pain and suffering is gone--and abundant life here on earth. (See  http://docs.google.com/Doc more on that...) 


    HE DESIRES US AND PURSUES US WITH HIS LOVE....
    __"What He is after is you--your laughter, your tears, your dreams, your fears, your heart of hearts. He wants you. And he has moved heaven and earth to get you." ~The Sacred Romance, by Brent Curtis and John Eldredge "The most important truth you will ever discover is that God loves you. He loves you so much that He wants you to spend eternity with Him in heaven."~Billy Graham. Nothing can separate you from God's love: "I'm absolutely convinced that nothing--nothing living or dead, angelic or demonic, today or tomorrow, high or low, thinkable or unthinkable--absolutely nothing can get between us and God's love because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us."~Romans 8:38-39


    "Don't turn your back on His love, but by a simple prayer of faith commit your life to Christ today."
    ~Billy Graham

    Love,
    Amy

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  • by Ron Kruger on April 11th, 2008

    Ron Kruger

    Good question. Here's a small excerpt from A Higher Good.
    "...The most dramatic demographic increase is, and will continue to be, those souls who claim no affiliation to an organized religion, and those who no longer participate in the organization they claim. These are not “lost souls” who no longer believe in God. They are souls who no longer can buy a punitive, vengeful, and impersonal God.
    To put it simply: they no longer can accept a God who, through objective analysis, is less compassionate and understanding than themselves.
    Those who drop out of organized religions may point to hypocrisy, to particulars of theology, or to the many injustices, but the underlying motive that prods them to the point of apathy or rebellion is the core definition of God. They feel a restless longing for something better, something more personal, something more pure–a Higher Good..."

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  • by Holiday on July 19th, 2007

    Holiday

    erase this

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  • by Halskiisaklink on August 7th, 2007

    Halskiisaklink

    Because God is about as sadistic as Lou Reed. Just look at Eritrea.

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  • by Aoefreak on February 2nd, 2008

    Aoefreak

    and by the way, I'm just wondering. Satan isn't a noun? How is an adjective? I dont know what Satan aculy means.

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  • by Aoefreak on February 6th, 2008

    Aoefreak

    Delete this

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  • by smart9426 on March 3rd, 2007

    smart9426

    He created us, but gave us free will

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