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by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
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You're reading Is it true that military intelligence is a contradiction in terms?
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Comments
So what did you think of the intelligence community's performance prior to 9/11, and also prior to the Iraq war? I'll hold off downrating you until you have had a chance to justify your answer.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
I was in the US Navy for a few years, and I must say, the public generally gets a skewed view of the military. Not always, but...anytime politics and politicians, combined with the "How can we sell the news today?" slant by the media, enters the mix, something always ends up looking bad. The 4 main branches of the US military are incredibly organized. They're run, by and large, by amazingly intelligent men and women who have little in common with politicians. It's easy to chortle at "military intelligence" and call it a contradiction. I do it, too. The truth is, Andersen777 is right on. DavidHume, as far as 9/11, I personally believe the Executive branch of the government is far more to blame than the intelligence community. Bush is famous for waffling and tuning out reality. You have seen the video of his reaction when informed about the WTC? He continued to talk to the kindergarten class. It was just galling. I doubt seriously that his behavior then departed substantially from his norm.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Any comment on the question I asked?
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
I do not have to justify anything here to anybody, that is not what AB is intended for. Furthermore, this is a question that does not have a right or wrong answer. Here in lies the big problem--the IC has been around for 50+ years and consists of an ever-changing number of (in the US) agencies and organizations. Right now everyone is unhappy about the current situation and the mud is flying. I cannot and will not elaborate any further.I do not come here to engage in battle with my fellow users. Sorry, not trying to be rude, but that's how I feel. The question did not ask about the ICs performance pre-9/11, downrate if you will, but I think that would be unfair given the nature of the question.***Thanks Jodie!***
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
That's a great point, 777. I added to my earlier comment to specifically address the 9/11 issue. That's an opinion, mind you. Andersen777 is right, though. The question is about military intelligence, not 9/11. It would be unfair to downrate her answer because she doesn't include information not asked for in the question. She's not a mind reader, for Pete's sake. She answered the question that was asked and as far as I'm concerned, answered it very well.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Sorry you felt the need to downrate anyhow. If you would like to debate politics, I suggest you find another venue besides AB. I think Jodie and I are both very qualified in this area and your opinion cannot outweigh experience. Seriously, you pick far too many fights, take it outside already. If it wasn't you then I apologize, but I stand by my observation.
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
Sorry I felt the need to downrate anyhow too. "These guys are pretty sharp for the most part" is unhelpful in my view, which is why I did it. Thanks for your concern anyway; politics is unavoidable in a question like this, as military intelligence is used to justify wars. As a matter of interest, what are your qualifications on this issue?
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
DavidHume, I'm going to jump in here for a minute and tell you that Andersen777 is qualified to answer this question IN SPADES. She was a spook, I believe is the slang term, but maybe I've read too much Ludlum, LOL. She can't, or probably won't, tell you that. Valerie Plame has nothing on A777. Sorry, I honestly didn't think you were the downrater, DH. I guess I thought you were a more fair-minded person.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
So funny I almost smiled. <grin>
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
It is not just military intelligence that is used to "justify" war--far from it in fact. What makes you qualified to state with certainty that it is in fact true or not (as the question asked). I have worked with the MI folks and I do not find that they are lacking in intelligence. But to undserstand that, one must differentiate between intelligence as a product and intelligence as a sign of proper brain function. I see it both ways and the product can be very good and the analysis very bad. Or the other way around. However, keep in mind that the question asked only about MI not the IC as a whole. Don't make me knock you off your soapbox--I hate being unpleasant, but I do not see a very solid answer on your part either and you seem to confuse MI with IC Intel. And how do you sort out bad intel. from people who do not have the right tools to do a good job. So many things to consider. I do not feel the need to lower myself and downrate it though because this is not a question that has an answer that can be rated down fairly.
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
Fair enough. Do you think the U.S. intelligence community came out of the 9/11 and Iraq issues looking good? The WMD thing will have led a lot of people besides me to think they looked a bit silly. Not to soapbox, as you put it, but an organisation is judged on its results, not on whether individual members are intelligent, nice people, or whatever.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
DavidHume, read this on the cause of war: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
It was written by a man, General Butler, who won the Congressional Medal of Honor, TWICE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
Greed and an insane lust for power, not flawed military intelligence, is what causes war.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Geez, I bet SimplyKate is really glad she asked this question <grin>
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Thanks for those interesting links. I would agree that greed and lust for power cause wars, but in the present case of Iraq (where people continue to die every day), the start of the war was also aided by flawed military intelligence. Remember the WMD claims?
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
Hells bells buddy, go to a site where you are welcomed when debating things that require the accuracy of the allmighty Wikipedia and a few internet hits. I bet poor Kate got more than she bargained for too. I'm done.
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
I'll stay here meantime, thanks. I'm sorry you weren't able to answer the very simple question I asked you.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
Sorry you can't just answer a simple question as stated without picking a fight.
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
No problem. If disagreeing with you constitutes picking a fight, next time I'll just rate you down without comment, since it seems to upset you.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
There is disagreeing and there is losing sight of the question itself and going off on a tangent that has no bearing on the question.
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
There is also over-personalising one's own error or inadequacies and letting it get you upset. Don't worry if you can't answer the question; although it was a simple one, it was difficult if you don't know the answer...
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
Ahhh. Here we have the telltale sign of one who sees he's about to go down in flames - he resorts to the classic diversionary tactic - the personal attack. He can't admit he was wrong about downrating, so he insults the other party and hopes it grabs enough of that other party's attention to take the heat off himself. DavidHume, you are so PWNED, LOL.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Oh, and BTW, it looks like getting downrated anonymously tweaks you out just a bit <snicker>. I noticed that was done after you threatened Andersen777 with the same thing. BTW, she's at too high a level to have given you a -2. I guess someone read your answer and didn't care for it, Mr. Hume.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
That it made you snicker says a lot about you and your attitude. Troll somewhere else, please.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
You deserve a snicker, sport. You've been a member of Answerbag for less than a month and you're telling me to go somewhere else? I bet you're a lot of fun at parties, LOL.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Just calling it how I see it. What you are doing is trolling, pure and simple. I won't continue to debate this with you, but I'm sure I'll see you around. Bye.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
Commenting is not trolling, David Hume. What are you talking about? I can't give -2's either.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
Listen David, it's nothing personal, but you obviously are not fond of Americans. You poke fun at our SUVs as if they are unique to us, our healthcare system, and our military. It's hateful and very targeted. Do we really need that here on AB? No. And Jodie is right, you have been here less than a month. Take some time to see how people interact with each other. Hateful is not welcomed by the majority of us. Jodie and I have been around long enough to know that (as have many others).
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
Funny how the people who dislike Americans don't allow the fact that Answerbag was conceived by an American and is headquartered in the United Sates to stop them from logging onto Answerbag and insulting Americans. If they went elsewhere, I bet Answerbag and the rest of America could survive the tragic loss.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
A777, you are completely wrong in your reading of me. How little of me you know to make such a judgement! "Hateful" is a very serious allegation, and I ask you to show me your evidence of that, or withdraw the allegation. I criticise the weaknesses (as I see them) of aspects of your government and your energy usage, that is very far from poking fun or being targetted. I'm sure you've contributed here for a long time, as I have done in several other online forums. I think I have a right to ask questions pertaining to the answer you gave, so long as I abide by the rules, as I think I have done. You seem to want to personalise this; I don't have anything against you as I don't know you. You apparently don't know me either, from the wrongness of the judgements you make of me. Don't confuse criticism for hatred, or debate with fun-poking. You gave an answer, I queried it, then marked it down and told you why. I stand by that, as I already explained why I think your answer is unhelpful.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
Unhelpful is not a word and it's judgment. You certainly seem to have no problem with passing judgment yourself. Again, I urge you to get to know the site a little better.
by Andy Is Wicked Married to Penal Colony on February 10th, 2007
"Hateful" is a description, not a "very serious allegation". I doubt this has escalated into a legal matter. DavidHume, you accused me of trolling while ago. Geez, guy, maybe along with all those online forums you reference, you should visit www.dictionary.com. Very serious allegation, my ass.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007
A777, I made and make no judgements on you, merely on your answer. Again, I urge you to learn to tell the difference.
by DavidHume on February 10th, 2007
You wrongly accused me of trolling while ago, DavidHume. Before you start handing out advice about learning anything, I urge YOU to learn the difference between trolling and commenting.
by Jodie44 on February 10th, 2007