Do Hamas rocket attacks on civilian targets constitute a war crime?

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• Thanks. +6

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 28th, 2009

• Welcome.

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  by Carpediem COAT ab imo pectore on March 28th, 2009

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• Exactly my point Hans. Excellent answer. Thumb up!

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  by FairLady on April 21st, 2009

• If that were true, it would be a good point; however, it's a lie. Another lie by the well-crafted propangada machine of the Jewish Nazi State

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 4th, 2009

• well as far as the "propaganda" i've seen with my own eyes the way a muslim militant "fights" they love to use innocent(and i use the term loosly) civilians as human shields because they are cowards. I havent been to isreal or palestine but they faught the same way in iraq.

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  by hans on July 10th, 2009

• Really? Well, there's no doubt the propaganda machine has been successful with you. Perhaps, what you fail to consider is that Muslims fight that way because they're defending themselves, their country and their people as oppose to say a US or IDF soldier who is invading, conquering, massacring...big difference, you know?

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 15th, 2009

• As for the human shield and being cowards, I agree but they're much more than that, they're sadistic killers, here check this out:
  
  http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/07/15-0
  
  http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/71836.html?mi_pluck_action=comment_submitted&qwxq=8631819#Comments_Container
  
  Surprise, surprise, eh? Yeah, I think that it was the IDF that invented the human shield trick and, conveniently, they use Palestinians for it. You would do yourself a great service if you turned off your TV and get FAUX News out of your life

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 15th, 2009

• i didnt get my facts from a tv asshole, i told you i've seen that shit with MY OWN eys, not wathcing a tv. I spent 14 months in iraq fighting coward muslim "militants"

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  by hans on July 16th, 2009

• Yeah, much better then. BTW, have you thought about blowing your brains out yet after all the children you murdered, the women you raped and the innocents you tortured?

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 17th, 2009

• I have less use for an "Iraq vet" than I have for toilet paper. And, if I were you, I'd have that anger problem checked out before you go on a rampage and kill even more innocents! Just a word to the wise, you psycho!

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 17th, 2009

• i've never raped, murdered or tortured anybody, and i bet you would never say something like that to my face so i could beat the ever living shit out of you. But we both know that you wont cause your a pussy, and you only talk shit from the safety of your keyboard.

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  by hans on July 17th, 2009

• Wanna bet? And, dude, seriously you have a tremendous anger management problem. I do feel for you and the people you're gonna kill when you finally go postal which, by the looks of it, won't be long now...
  
  Get help! Take some pills! Get a grip! Whatever is up your ass is your own problem. Remember, there's no draft anymore. If you were stupid enough to go fight a war for the corporations, who do you have to blame but yourself? Stupid is as stupid does

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 17th, 2009

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• Thanks, Lion.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 21st, 2009

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• I'll grant you the white phosphorus is over the line too, but how do unprovoked rocket attacks on unarmed civilian targets equal self defense?

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 5th, 2009

• Jim Twisted Taco is too biased and too anti-Israeli to be able to see what YOU Jim see.

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  by FairLady on April 21st, 2009

• Seems so.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 21st, 2009

• Ahem! Define "attaack" please? Are we talking attacks over the past 61 years or are we gonna forget those and concentrate on just one round of home-made rockets?

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  by Mephistopheles on April 24th, 2009

• For the umpteenth time, let me remind the partisans in this discussion that I asked about war crimes committed by BOTH sides in THIS conflict. This isn't a question about all of history, and it isn't a question trying to pick on either side.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 24th, 2009

• I think the case about "white phosphorous" is a little over the top and it's fairly obvious that the "anti" side haven't even looked up what the chemical is used for nor it's allowed usage in conflict according to chemical weapons schedules in the Geneva Convention. Read that. It's on the net. Willy Pete isn't listed as a chemical weapon, it's mentioned only as being deployed as an incinerate.
  It's a component of a lot of weapons delivery systems as well as in defensive ones. Smoke screens are a popular use. Even metropolitan riot police use it. It can be deployed as an incendiary as well.Not in this case in Gaza though...or the fires would have been difficult to control. I don't see Gaza a smoking ruin like Dresden through it's use, do you? Or Tokyo for that matter either. In Gaza's case it was deployed as either a smokescreen or heleo dropped as an anti missile defense system for that aircraft. I saw the vids. Unfortunately for some, those people were under a burning piece when it fell and it was deployed close to the ground. Toss a burning ember out an aircraft door. It may or may not still be lit when it hits ground from low altitude.
  Nice try Hamas media spin types...informed people will shoot that argument down though.

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  by scubabob on April 25th, 2009

• Ohh.. and if Willy Pete is a chemical weapon, then add my country to the list of terrorist states. We use it in Canada. I've been part of a gun crew on a destroyer that fired off WP on exercise as part of a smoke screen on an amphib mock Nato assult. It's damn good at making smoke.

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  by scubabob on April 25th, 2009

• Report condemns Israel's phosphorus shell use in Gaza
  JERUSALEM (CNN) -- The Israeli military's firing of white phosphorus shells over densely populated areas during the Gaza offensive "was indiscriminate and is evidence of war crimes," Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a report on Wednesday.
  
  Human Rights Watch says Israel used white phosphorus shells over populated areas in Gaza.
  "In Gaza, the Israeli military didn't just use white phosphorus in open areas as a screen for its troops," said Fred Abrahams, a HRW senior emergencies researcher.
  
  "It fired white phosphorus repeatedly over densely populated areas, even when its troops weren't in the area and safer smoke shells were available. As a result, civilians needlessly suffered and died."

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• Entitled "Rain of Fire: Israel's Unlawful Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza," the 71-page report provides "witness accounts" and "presents ballistics evidence, photographs, and satellite imagery, as well as documents from the Israeli military and government."
  
  HRW is an independent international organization dedicated to defending and protecting human rights.
  
  The group urged Israel and the United States to investigate the attacks. Israel should prosecute those who carried them out and the U.S. government, which supplied Israel, should look into the issue.
  
  HRW said white phosphorous was a chemical substance dispersed in artillery shells, bombs and rockets, used primarily to obscure military operations.
  
  "(While) it is not considered a chemical weapon and is not banned per se, it ignites and burns on contact with oxygen and creates a smokescreen at night or during the day to mask the visual movement of troops.

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• "It also interferes with infra-red optics and weapon-tracking systems, thus protecting military forces from guided weapons such as anti-tank missiles. When WP comes into contact with people or objects, though, it creates an intense and persistent burn. It can also be used as a weapon against military targets," the group said.
  
  In response, the Israeli military said "smoke shells are not an incendiary weapon" and defended its actions.
  
  The Israel Defense Forces said it was close to completing its probe into "the use of ammunition containing elements of phosphorous."
  
  "(The invesitgation) is dealing with the use of ammunition containing elements of phosphorous, including, among others, the 155mm smoke shells which were referred to in the HRW report. This type of ammunition disperses in the atmosphere and creates an effective smoke screen. It is used by many Western armies.

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• "It is already possible to conclude that the IDF's use of smoke shells was in accordance with international law. These shells were used for specific operational needs only and in accord with international humanitarian law. The claim that smoke shells were used indiscriminately, or to threaten the civilian population, is baseless," the IDF said.
  
  It said "that weapons intended for screening are not classed as incendiary weapons."
  
  But Abrahams said past IDF investigations into allegations of wrongdoing suggest their inquiry would be neither thorough nor impartial.
  
  "That's why an international investigation is required into serious laws of war violations by all parties.
  
  "For the needless civilian deaths caused by white phosphorus, senior commanders should be held to account," Abrahams said.

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• The report said white phosphorus munitions weren't illegal when deployed properly in open areas, but it determined that the IDF repeatedly used them "unlawfully over populated neighborhoods, killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures, including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse and a hospital. "
  
  "First, the repeated use of air-burst white phosphorus in populated areas until the last days of the operation reveals a pattern or policy of conduct rather than incidental or accidental usage. Second, the IDF was well aware of the effects of white phosphorus and the dangers it poses to civilians. Third, the IDF failed to use safer available alternatives for smokescreens," the report said.
  
  A medical report prepared during the recent hostilities by the Israeli Health Ministry said that white phosphorus "can cause serious injury and death when it comes into contact with the skin, is inhaled or is swallowed." The report said that the IDF could have used a non-lethal smoke shells produced by an Israeli company if it wanted to provide a "smokescreen" for its troops.

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• Israel launched the offensive in late December to take on militants from Hamas, who had been shelling southern Israeli communities for months from Gaza.
  
  The offensive, called Operation Cast Lead, was launched December 27 and ended January 17 with a cease-fire. Of the 1,453 people estimated killed in the conflict, 1,440 were Palestinian, including 431 children and 114 women, a U.N. report recently said. The 13 Israelis killed included three civilians and six soldiers killed by Hamas, and four soldiers killed by friendly fire, it said.
  
  HRW also said it found no evidence that the Hamas militants Israel was targeting in Gaza were using human shields "in the vicinity at the time of the attacks."
  
  Israel has said Hamas militants used civilians as human shields and fought from civilian locations, HRW points out.
  
  "In some areas Palestinian fighters appear to have been present, but this does not justify the indiscriminate use of white phosphorus in a populated area."
  http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/25/israel.white.phosphorus.gaza/index.html

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• Israel Admits Use of White Phosphorous in Gaza War
  http://current.com/items/90578083_israel-admits-use-of-white-phosphorous-in-gaza-war.htm
  
  Israel/Occupied Palestinian Territories: Israel's use of white phosphorus against Gaza civilians "clear and undeniable"
  http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/israeloccupied-palestinian-territories-israel039s-use-white-phosphorus-a
  
  Gaza: Israel under fire for alleged white phosphorus use
  
  http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/p07s01-wome.html
  
  Gaza White Phosphorous
  http://cc.aljazeera.net/asset/language/english/gaza-white-phosphorous
  
  Israelis rain phosphorous bombs over children in Gaza
  http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=118127&d=13&m=1&y=2009
  
  Gaza under cloud of white phosphorous
  http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82213&sectionid=351020202
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HssyL5bntE
  
  But of course, all of these, including the videos and pictures were "manipulated by the press" - no shame!

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• all's fair in love and war

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  by BOOZE HOUND... nothing is nonsence on September 1st, 2009

• so twisted taco what your saying is there's one rule for one side and a differant one for the other.that's bullshit!!.

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  by BOOZE HOUND... nothing is nonsence on September 1st, 2009

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• Thanks. +6

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 4th, 2009

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• I agree that it is an act of war, and the deliberate targeting of civilians is likely a war crime -- but an act of war is not necessarily a war crime under international law.
  
  I personally think these bombings are both, but just wanted to point out that "act of war" and "war crime" are technical terms that are not synonymous.
  
  But I'm a geek.

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  by ChrisDC on March 21st, 2009

• Thanks for the comment Chris. You may be a geek, but after reading your comment I believe you are right

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  by Timjon on March 21st, 2009

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• anddeb you are awesome.

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  by FairLady on April 23rd, 2009

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• Thanks. +6

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 19th, 2009

• Trolls removed 5 points! They seem to be having fun!

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  by Colt COAT of Justice on March 21st, 2009

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• Thanks. +6

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 19th, 2009

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• I asked about both. So can I put you down for a Yes here and trust you to go over to http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1360644 and vote Yes there too?

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 19th, 2009

• i've got to give you credit jim your determind to stay on the fence on this one lol.

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  by BOOZE HOUND... nothing is nonsence on September 1st, 2009

• Jim, you can put me down as a yes,as they are both war crimes.

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  by Schonberg on September 1st, 2009

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• If only ignorance could hurt...

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on July 4th, 2009

• Then you, rinky, would be in a full body cast... If you had two heads... you would be twice as stupid.

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  by TomFluflu on November 16th, 2009

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• If they rained down on my kids school room, I wouldn't think so.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 24th, 2009

• If another country kicked you and your people out of your country, took your homeland, oppressed you and yours, then murdered your family, friends and your people, you may think differently but I realize that it's all a matter of which side of the issue - or rather the the Apartheid wall - you're standing on

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  by Rinky Dinky Do on April 28th, 2009

• I asked about whether the IDF committed war crimes, as well. It isn't my fight. I'm not playing partisan here.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 28th, 2009

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• Thanks. +6

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 21st, 2009

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• If rockets were raining down on my cities daily, at some point I would want my government to strike back and not just on a one-for-one basis. You killed 10 of ours sop now we kill 10 of yours -- that simply isn't how you fight a war.
   
  I separately asked if Israel had committed War Crimes in their response.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 21st, 2009

• What if it was "your city" that was under occupation? What if your homeland had been taken away? What if your friends, family and fellow countrymen were being enslaved, starved & murdered on a daily basis? What would you do then? Would you consider stricking back against your enemy or would you lower your pants, bend over and thank your opressor after he was done with the deed?

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

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• I asked about both sides attacks. ARguments about the land belonging to one side or the other will not resolved the situation we have today. If prior claim has priority, then Israelis had that land thousands of years ago. If it's to be resolved, it will not be by dialing the clock backward, but by dealing with the realities of today.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 21st, 2009

• Im giving you a standing ovation jim.............not a whole lot of people are willing to look at it that way...... we need to forget about the fuckin past man and move into a more civilized era

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  by hans on April 2nd, 2009

• Thanks, hans. :)

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on April 2nd, 2009

• Hamas attacks are SELF-DEFENSE! Israel, the fourth most powerful nation in the world, a rogue nuclear state, has been occupying the Palestinians for 61 years, they have stolen the Palestinian land, they have perpetrated Apartheid and genocide, they have starved the population, they have TERRORIZED them on a 24/7 basis with raids, sonic booms, bulldozers, tanks, shooting, kidnappings. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves whether you like it or not! War is hell! Sometimes the victim retaliates and, for every 25 of their innocent people that the agressor kills, they kill ONE. Please, educate yourself on the subject! It's shit, but if it's good enough for Israel it has to be good for the Palestinians too. There's my answer? Have I covered it? Are you happy now or do you need a better explanation?

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  by Mephistopheles on August 31st, 2009

• The arabs did not call themselves palistinians until 1973, they regarded themselves as syrians till then (a genius marketing move to perpetuate fraud)
  .
  You say genocide... in 1948 there were about 500,000 arabs ... now there are multiple millions... with about 1.3 mill living within israel (the only musloms in the mid east living in a democracy)
  .
  Why doesn't hamas just build their country? Build industry... schools... agriculture... like that...
  .
  Don't let your brains stand in the way of your tongue...

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  by TomFluflu on November 16th, 2009

• Thanks, Tom. I missed Mephistopheles comment back a=in August. Sorry Mephistopheles. But I have to agree mostly with Tom on this. It appears to me that the current Hamas objective is nothing short of the complete destruction of Israel. THere have been numerous chances to opt for peace and a Palestinian State. They have rejected all.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on November 17th, 2009

• Jim... you hit the target. The stated goal of the palistinians is to drive every jew into the sea, for islam.
  .
  Their goal should be statehood. They have a chance to do what no musloms have done before... build a thriving society with success and freedom to its' people. Instead they have fallen into slavery to this cult of death... with morality squads dispensing vicious street justice. I read about it every day.

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  by TomFluflu on November 17th, 2009

• Thanks. Tom. Keep us posted.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on November 17th, 2009

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• Agreed. Thanks.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 19th, 2009

• Thanks Jim:)

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  by Firebrand on March 19th, 2009

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• Thanks. We reach agreement twice in one day. What can this mean? :)

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on November 29th, 2009

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• Thanks.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on March 21st, 2009

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• Israel endured over 12,000 rockets and morters since 2000. Any other country would have endured one... I would have endured two.

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  by TomFluflu on November 16th, 2009