Opponents of seat belt laws say these laws infringe on their civil liberties.They believe not wearing seat belts is a victimless crime as the only person harmed is the one making that decision for himself. How do you feel about compulsory seat belt laws?

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• I completely agree with your last statement.
  Although I do not agree with your victimless crime comparison of not wearing a seat belt to drugs. Drug crime involves assault, murder, theft, impaired driving, etc.
  My thought is are we becoming desensitized to the loss of our liberties through a slow and gradual process which ultimately leads to no-fly lists, phone tapping, etc. And this starting with simple and seemingly justifiable violations such as seat belt laws. 30 years ago no-fly lists, phone tapping, etc. were an absurd idea.

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  by jaddis01 on November 28th, 2008

• Drug *dealing* involves those things, Drug *taking* does not. Yet people are punished for owning and using tiny quantities of drugs as if they were personally responsible for the ills you mention. On that basis, we shoudl punish the owners of diamonds for the evils of the "blood diamond" trade.

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  by Im Alec has abandoned this account on November 28th, 2008

• 1. Drug taking leads to death, murder,assault, and theft, as well as many more crimes. Vehicular homicide could occur through impaired driving. If not they need to do away with DUI and OWI laws. An addiction can lead to a crack addict holding someone up for money to by more crack. Car jacking someone, robbing a gas station, forging checks.I had a friend who who under the influence of cocaine conspired to kill his girlfriends father and did it. Drug addicts, while taking drugs, can abuse their families. People taking drugs can put their families at risk. Heroin addicts leave needles around. Addicts are moms with children running around. Their children are neglected and exposed to a dangerous environment, including being introduced to sex at an early age. People steal from family members and neighbors to buy drugs. Prostitutes do there thing to get drugs. These all involve drug taking. So do you still think they're comparable? P

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  by jaddis01 on November 28th, 2008

• Drug *taking* does not usually lead to those things - drug *dealing* does. A few crack addicts turn to crime, but only because the whole thing is criminalized. The vast majority of drug *users*, not dealers commit no crime at all.And those who kill themselves not wearing seat belts can also be mothers with children.
  
  All the ills that you list, which undoubtedly exist, are the product of the criminalisation, and hence vast profitablity, of crime. Drug addicts *can* abuse their families - but alcoholics are more likely to do so: the connection between alcohol and violence is many times stronger than most drugs. The same applies to all your descriptions of family problems. Needles are left around because people are forced to inject in dark corners. Prostitutes need the money to pay off the criminals. People steal the money to pay the criminals. The billions spent in the "War on Drugs" cause about ten times as many billions to be earned by criminals.

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  by Im Alec has abandoned this account on November 29th, 2008

• So you say it "does not usually lead to crime", but you admit it does. I've never heard of a person putting on a seat belt and saying...hmmm I feel like robbing somebody. Crack addicts can't control their urges to use. They use at work or prior to going to work. employers fire them and they have a full right too. People aren't productive when they're high. And have impaired judgment. Crack addicts turn to crime because they are broke. Not because crack is criminalized. Even if you decriminalize crack it will still cost money. they will still have to steal. Would you trust a crack addict around your stuff. Your argument is for recreational drug use. ok...understood. So you're saying decriminalize drugs but enforce seat belt laws. Absolutely absurd. I personally know people in prison for murder while on cocaine. Im a social worker who sees the effects drugs have on peoples choices. They neglect their kids and can't hold jobs. Im not talking pot. The hard ones

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  by jaddis01 on November 29th, 2008

• "There are considerable knock-on consequences..." and there aren't for drug use. The social ramifications of families destroyed in coming generation i think will be dramatic. Not because of the criminalization aspect but because kids watching their mom shooting up and getting high for the next few hours and forgetting about dinner just can't be good.
  
  "there will be real and significant costs." and there aren't for e.r.rooms visits, court costs, rehabs. Where I live, kids out partying with heroin, drop off friends in front of hospitals. The kids have overdosed and this happens at least once a month. "not because of criminalization. Because they want a greater high and they mix it with other shit. Legalize it and make it available in quantifiable measurements and people will still abuse. Pill heads do it all the time with their scripts.
  
  not comparable

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  by jaddis01 on November 29th, 2008

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• Using this argument one could say that since people are stupid enough to not wear condoms, which could result in an unplanned pregnancy and have a higher cost to tax payers than the cost of "scraping brains off the street", that we should force birth control on them. Either through abortion and or sterilization. I think this is what happened in Nazi germany, Russia, and China. The government takes control over what it deems right or wrong because it believes it knows best. Do you agree with Government control over our lives in various scenarios because we are to stupid to know better. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Ben Franlin

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  by jaddis01 on November 28th, 2008

• I think you misunderstand, I disagree with seatbelt 'laws' Having been in 2 MVa's, that without a seatbelt, I would have been in a wheelchair or dead, which were the fault of two other careless ppl, I always wear my seatbelt. I don't think anyone should force someone to wear one, I just think that more intelligent people do.

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  by qwerty on November 28th, 2008

• ok, rereading what you wrote..I agree. I thought you were arguing for them.

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  by jaddis01 on November 28th, 2008

• My point was if you don't your kind of the weakest link, but to each their own, I don't judge ppl, I'm just surprised by their reason for not wearing one. Sometimes I get the impression that some ppl don't wear one because there is a law and they want to be a rebel and not wear one in spite of the law. If your an adult, I think it should be totaly up to you.

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  by qwerty on November 28th, 2008

• Yes people are stupid. And that is the point. Because people are reproducing at an alarming rate and breeding more stupidity, should we all be told what to do because of them. The government forces laws on us telling us what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. I don't think many people do not wear them to defy the law, unless they're worth a lot of money. "I fought the law and the..law won" ....all the time...
  People not wearing them just haven't been properly trained yet. Not enough slaps on the wrists or yanks to the chain. After a few citations they always start wearing them.

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  by jaddis01 on November 28th, 2008

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• "Your freedoms stops where my responsibility begins"!!!
  Tell that to the banks issuing bad loans and being the catalyst to the economic crisis we're in. And the congress who racked $700 billion of "our" responsibility.
  but yet the governments going to dictate our driving conditions. And when not in compliance they dig deeper into our pockets. Not cool...It's another way to milk money

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  by jaddis01 on November 28th, 2008

• That's a free market economy for you. Don't like it, don't vote for people who support it. I tried not to.

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  by ConservativelyLiberal on November 28th, 2008

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