- NEW!
by OliviaKate on November 14th, 2008
I personally feel that as a mormon and a transsexual that doing what makes you whole or right or however you want to view it is a personal challenge that we have to face. I don't feel that a perfect god would punish us for making ourselves feel comfortable with whom we see in the mirror.
by DiSTurBiA on October 21st, 2008
In the church's eyes, prolly not. But do what YOU think is right, what you think is best for you. Dont let anyone else keep you from being yourself.
by cancon on October 21st, 2008
This is extremely tough question to understand by anyone who is outside of your experience.
If you trust God for anything in your life, that would be “the one” issue that I would recommend. Most Christians will probably condemn you for even thinking about doing such a thing, and can’t really blame them, because they do have grounds according to the scripture.
What I would recommend you do is take hold of prayer, and if you are a evangelical Christian as you said you are, get hold of Holy Spirit through prayer and don’t let go until you have your answer…
You have been redeemed by the blood of Christ, and the Holy Spirit has been released upon all flesh for the purpose of guiding us (you) to the right “door”.
– listen to Him…
In Christ
by krazymike on October 21st, 2008
I don't see why. Am I going to hell for having my appendix removed?
by the artist formerly known as triorion on January 12th, 2009
no one can judge who will go to hell. the only guidelines i can offer on that is if you've done something that you feel is wrong, then you need to recognize it and deal with it.
God made you a man, but He sends people on all different kinds of paths. i think if you pray about this, the answer will come to you. i don't see much of a difference here with any other bodily alteration, the key is whether this will bring you closer to God or take you further away. i think you can do this and still be a good, decent, honest person, and you can certainly still be a Christian.
by Rinky Dinky Do on January 12th, 2009
Oh, yeah! You're going down, Mister...
by sirdrae on December 11th, 2008
i suggest, do what cancon said.
"This is extremely tough question to understand by anyone who is outside of your experience.
If you trust God for anything in your life, that would be “the one” issue that I would recommend. Most Christians will probably condemn you for even thinking about doing such a thing, and can’t really blame them, because they do have grounds according to the scripture.
What I would recommend you do is take hold of prayer, and if you are a evangelical Christian as you said you are, get hold of Holy Spirit through prayer and don’t let go until you have your answer…
You have been redeemed by the blood of Christ, and the Holy Spirit has been released upon all flesh for the purpose of guiding us (you) to the right “door”.
– listen to Him…"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thats the right thing to do.
by Molly says whos YOUR Tiger on January 12th, 2009
I don't know. If I were to guess, I would say that God is loving, and forgiving, even if it is a sin. I think God gives us free will to do as we will, and if your desire is to be a woman, no one on here can truly guide you. As to whether it is right, or not, only you can decide that. Good luck.
by The Wraith of God is Coming on January 12th, 2009
Well you are a vessel to God and by deatroying it that is not good.
by sirdrae on January 12th, 2009
by the way "artist formerly known as triorion", you are right. we cannot pass judgment... however, we will one day. 1 Corinthians 6:3 says
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
analyze these verses friend:
You asked:
can He not make men with the intention that they would feel like women, and want to become women?
THE ANSWER IS NO. Thats confusion right there. the bible says, God is NOT the author of confusion, 1 Corinthians 14:33.
However, SATAN DOES THAT...NOT GOD. GOD MADE MAN FOR WOMAN. GOD HIMSELF CALLS HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY AN ABOMINATION.
here are his own words:
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
you also asked: doesnt everything happen for a reason? The answer is yes.
some things happen because we are enticed and drawn by our own desires, NOT GOD's desires. The bible makes it clear:
James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
you asked: Does God want his creatures to be happy? the answer is MOST CERTAINLY YES. thats why God sent his only son to save us. to give us a better life... Changing our sex, defacing ourselves and all of that isnt gonna make us happy. it shows we arent at peace, it shows we are not having the mind of christ. Listen Jesus can and will make us all happy. we jus have to TRUST HIM.
Seek to trust and serve Jesus and thats when you will have perfect peace.
Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
the amplified bible says it this way:
"You will guard him and keep him in perfect and constant peace whose mind [both its inclination and its character] is stayed on You, because he commits himself to You, leans on You, and hopes confidently in You."
if the persons reading this will do what isaih says... we too will have perfect peace. a person who changes their sex in efforts to have "peace" isnt gonna find it that way.
SEEK JESUS AND U WILL HAVE PERFECT PEACE.
by sirdrae on December 9th, 2008
wow, this is a serious question. no man can say if you will go to hell or not, thats up to God to say that. i will say though, i think you should stay the way God made you. i.e. a man. God made you as a male, for a reason. unless you think God made a mistake, then i would say, remain how you are. the idea of a sex change is the devil working on you.
do not give in!
************************
look at this...
if you change your sex, and become female... its a lie.
you arent a female and will never be. if your female appearance makes a man (who doesnt know you) like you... you make him like a MAN... you make the man stumble. your whole life is going to be a deception and a lie. that contradicts what you do.. you are supposed to be a bearer of TRUTH. if you change your sex, how can you preach truth?
supposed a man, likes you and wants to marry you?
... wat then? that homosexuality.
God doesnt play like that... you know God hates that sin.
when you change your sex, who are you glorifying, satan or God?
i say this to you my friend, do not allow your desires to trap you in a life of deception.
how will you help teens with esteem issues, if you change your sex?
how will you be a guide to those you are given to guide?
how will you face God NOW if you change your sex?
dont you know, that God doesnt like cross dressing... or effeminate behaviour?
your desire to change your sex is effeminate. ... to God, you are a man, he made you that way.
love and appreciate how God made you... he sees you as you are and love you as is. its time you accept what God sees and love what God sees.
If your son or daughter were to become Gay, would you be against it or for it?
by applefritter on September 10th, 2010
| 2 people like this
Does God really want for women to be subservient to men?(NIV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35)"
by anil m on May 6th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
What do you think of Deuteronomy 22:28-29? I personally think this would severely reduce rape if made Law as God wanted it.
by LePoupon is a proper gander. on August 30th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
What in our culture tempts us to set aside God's standards for sexuality?
by anil m on November 30th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
Where in the Bible does it say homosexuality is wrong?
by Avenmar on July 8th, 2010
| 2 people like this
You're reading Is it OK to get a sex change and still be a Christian? I am an evangelical christian but my whole life I've known i'm not a man in my soul... Will I go to hell for becoming physically what I am soulfully?
Your favorite Q&A site is on Facebook! Become a fan to connect with the ever-growing community of Answerbaggers, share your thoughts and find out what Answerbag's up to next!
Comments
Re LDS doctrine, the answer is too confusing.
LDS Christian doctrine teaches directly against both - homosexuality and transexuality. One cannot say that you can "steal", if it "Makes you feel more comfortable doing so". No!
ALL Commandments of God are just that.
ALL sins need repentance to obtain Celestiality or eternal life.
Certainly, also, many sins that equate with sexual transgression are among the most serious, as holy writ continually reminds us.
There is cewrtainly hope, but as holy writ states: "You cannot be saved in your sins." Jesus came that we might be saved FROM our sins, AS WE WORK, NEVERTHELESS, THROUGH THE PROCESS OF REPENTANCE VIA THE AID OF THE HOLY GHOST. We need to get close to the Holy Ghost.
by denidowi on January 18th, 2009
denidowi, I am not talking about stealing or any kind of sin. I am talking about having surgery to make your appearance and body conform with what you honestly feel that you are. Nowhere in the bible is this mentioned as being anethema or a sin.
by OliviaKate on May 3rd, 2009
No, it's not bibl;ically mentioned.
Funny that; Hey??
Do u think at all that it might just have a smidgen to do with the fact that they could conduct no such process in Bible times.
Being LDS, you should know that the most important prophet is the current one.
You can now see why that is the case, Huh?
by denidowi on May 3rd, 2009
Deni you old hypocrite. Why you go preaching to OK here about what is right and wrong, while in another thread you talk about Gina's vagina lips and how ready you are for them? Either your a follower of your beliefs or your not. BTW, Aren't you happily married or is that BS along with your other claims on here?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 3rd, 2009
In the more liberal, humorous topics, shall we call them, Macca, I just muck around!
Nothing serious. Just making convo.LOL
You take some things with a grain of salt on here.
We ain't playin' fer sheep stations.
by denidowi on May 3rd, 2009
Is that why you foolishly posted your e-mail address on a thread? Just mucking around,eh? Your wife and family know about this convo?Wonder if they would take such behavior with a grain of salt..
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 4th, 2009
McJug, you do carry on when it suits you.
WHY??
Re emails: these people live in US/UK.
I live on the next planet!
If Anything is sent, it's only lolly-pop.
I have given out my email add to various people on here, mac.
You are quite at liberty to write yourself.
by denidowi on May 4th, 2009
Surly Denis, you must have learned something about love, kindness and compassion from Christ's teachings over the last 30 yrs.Why must you be so insensitive and judgmental by casting a stone at OK for what you perceive as a sin? Are you so devoid of sin my friend to treat your brothers and sisters that way?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 6th, 2009
I think you're a mountain of molehill old Windbag, Mac
Mac you're a Jug
More mouth than southLOL!
by denidowi on May 6th, 2009
I don't find it funny at all Denis that you lack understanding and compassion for your fellow human beings. I was brought up to believe that we are all God's children and even though I'm no longer a religious person I like Jesus thoughts about loving your neighbor as yourself.I also recall that we are ALL sinners and if we believe in and have faith in Christ, who died for our sins, we shall be saved.Is it just you, or is it your version of the LDS that doesn't accept transsexuals into Gods family? Apparently OK's Church does. So what sins in your eyes can one commit and still be accepted at your Church? It is a Christian Fellowship, is it not?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 6th, 2009
Carry on carry on carry on
Get off yourself Mac.
by denidowi on May 6th, 2009
Well there Deni. I just read that Marie Osmond, a well known LDS member has announced her support for same sex civil unions based on her interpretation of Holy writ.Is there that much division in the LDS Church that none of you can agree?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 7th, 2009
I'm curious if you have even considered how much suffering these people go through.Many religious fanatics claim it is just a choice. I ask you,what do you think would cause someone to choose to go through so much hell to try and be happy? To feel isolated from and rejected by religious folks such as yourself? What is wrong with acknowledging that you don't have a clue why and have a warm and open heart as I'm sure Jesus would.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 7th, 2009
You're still carrying on like a Judgmental 2-bob-watch, Mac
When ur ready to finally get off your Judgmental high horse and your inapplicable rantings & carryings on, I might talk to you
by denidowi on May 7th, 2009
I'm not surprised that you would resort to 'The pot calling the kettle black'.You are the judge that has claimed without any evidence on AB that Homosexual behavior can be fixed like it is caused by a virus or something. Wishful thinking for something that no one really understands, not even you.I understand your disgust with such behavior, but I have talked with quite a few of these people and have come to the conclusion that there is more going on than just choice.I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they found a gene explaining this phenomena.I do know that some of these folks were abused and hurt as children.I doubt you have ever had the time to talk and listen to a gay person with an open mind and heart,have you?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 7th, 2009
Mac, as it's mostly drivel, I'm not goin' past the 2nd sentence, plus I need to work now...
Laws, Mac, whether they are natural or spiritual ARE fixed.
If you don't obey the laws that are irrevocably decreed, you won't gain the blessing you would have, had you obeyed. ... EG of throwing a ball at a particular target, for instance..
The natural is a type of the spiritual. That's why Jesus taught in practical parables and via the world around around Him.
by denidowi on May 7th, 2009
The Laws that were decreed and spiritually fixed? Are you referring to The Ten Commandments as the decreed? The 4th explicitly states that we are not to work, but rest on the sabbath.Not very practical this day and age. The 6th states 'Thou shall not kill'. Perhaps our great countries involved in skirmishes around the globe should take heed. We are a nation found on Christianity and kill all the time for various reasons, mainly for defense,on moral grounds or ethics to help others. Irrevocably decreed, but ignored by all men! Yep, were all going to get a blessing.Changing sex or consorting with the same isn't even mentioned in Gods main laws given to Moses.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 8th, 2009
You speak of the natural or spiritual laws.Perhaps God was out to lunch when he created homosexual and bisexual animals.Maybe he was some kind of jokester creating such diversity in us just to see what we would do and how we would treat others.What about hermaphrodites? Humans aren't the only mammal with such traits. Homosexual behavior has been observed among elephants,dolphins,lions, tigers and bears, oh my!The list is to long to go on!!
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 8th, 2009
I've brought up before the difficulty more and more people are having with taking Gods word so seriously in this modern age.There is some kind of spiritual connection but Religious doctrine is falling by the wayside. In fact many churches are fighting to stay afloat.And why? Because it is clear that the style of God venerated in the church, mosque, or synagogue seems completely different from the style of the natural universe. It's hard to conceive of the author of one as the author of the other.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 8th, 2009
Could you please tell me why you just stand up against the sins that suit you while you don't have any conviction to do the same with any of God's laws he put forth in The Ten Commandments? What have you got against people that have different sexual drives than you? Why do you think God didn't include homosexual behaviour? Your thoughts?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 8th, 2009
I'll just deal with the first Mac, as I have countless people to respond to.
God didn't make homosexual people.
People made homo people.
Next...
Give you another: feeling generous!
Then I have a primary lesson to also prepare for Sundey, mac.
It would be nice to see you at Church: then we could talk - properly.
"Many many people moving more towards Homos" you say...
That's because Mac, scripture predicted that in the Last Days [and we're in them] man would shift further and further away from God, until at the very end where man is "ripe for destruction" ... at that point, He will raise the righteous, and consume the rest by fire!
Ask me re 10 Commandments and homos in the next one ... unless you know your own answer.
by denidowi on May 9th, 2009
If God makes people mentally hard wired to be attracted to the opposite sex.How and why do you propose that people can make homo people. What magic is this, that man can change something so strong as sexual attraction of his own free will?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Very funny how you mistake my saying how the fall of religious doctrine equates to more homos.lol.. Last Days?? Religious folks have been telling the world this for many centuries every time things look bleak but their prophecy still has yet to come to fruition.They warn us that if we aren't one of God's pets, we will perish and be consumed by fire.I on the other hand am less pessimistic about our future.This is a wonderful time to be alive!!
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
If you look at any perceived crisis, you will see how in the long run, there is a silver lining and it brings people closer together. It helps bind the human family and breaks down common prejudices.It allows us to see that we are all made of the same stuff, that we all suffer the same and cultivates compassion.It helps in reminding us that we all seek to be happy.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Downturns in our overall development are essential ... No Deni, I don't subscribe to a doom and gloom mentality. I believe and have faith in humanity.I know ,that we can learn to live in peace. War is obsolete now and that to me is a wonderful thing and fills me full of hope.Unlike you,I'm very optimistic about our humanity and future.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Last Days??
Poss they have been saying that for a 1000 years mac.
But the big diff is: this time God said it!
Now if you closely study your BOM and Isaiah, and even Revelation for that matter, you'll quite plainly see this is the time they speak of, mac.
You need to become versant, mac, with your scrip be4 making a fool of yourself!
God has also taught us in these Last Days, through prophets, that we - that is you and I, mac, have ALWAYS LIVED!
Now there's some revelation for you, Hey?!
And, that as such, you have been your own independent creator and independent agent from the beginning!!!!... creating your own tendencies and beliefs from the beginning.
Now sift THAT one through your channels there, mac!
I'll let you ponder just a while Mac ... and you might be able to answer some of your own Q's.
You never know, mac, I just might yet see you at Church yet.
Miracle of Miracles, mac:
You might be serving a mission one day for the Church!
If you do so, invite me to come over and see you get set apart for your mission.
by denidowi on May 9th, 2009
Always Lived?? Perhaps I need to refresh your memory about my philosophy.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Underneath my superficial self, which pays attention to this and that, there is another self more really us than I. And the more you become aware of the unknown self -- if you become aware of it -- the more you realize that it is inseparably connected with everything else that is. You are a function of this total galaxy, bounded by the Milky Way, and this galaxy is a function of all other galaxies.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
You are that vast thing that you see far, far off with great telescopes. You look and look, and one day you are going to wake up and say, "Why, that's me!" And in knowing that, you know that you never die. You are the eternal thing that comes and goes that appears -- now as John Jones, now as Mary Smith, now as Betty Brown -- and so it goes, forever and ever and ever.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Now I should clarify my feelings about Religion.I see Religions playing an important part in many peoples lives and for one Religion to say they are better than another,or the only way is silly. Religions are like medicine for people, much like pain killers. Tylenol, ibuprofen, aspirin, etc. all do the same thing.They all help people feel a part of something bigger than themselves. This I believe is good. However, believing in a God isn't necessary to become enlightened with this revelation.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
There are many different disciplines that can facilitate this enlightened state of not just knowing you are eternal but feeling it and being at peace. Yoga,Meditation,Ti Chi, Chi Kung are just a few of the best known.And I should point out that these require a religious commitment and aren't easy to master, but the results are the same. They all achieve an enlightened spiritual mental state. After all, isn't that what man seeks when he looks up into the heavens?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Now I think it is fair to answer your question about me commenting when you struck out at OK. She mentioned she had already had the operation and was a LDS member.You had to try your best to throw doctrine at her to let her know her place wasn't with your Church. You know full well that Churches are places that sinners go to find repentance. Do you think that everyone in your Church is without sin? What about you? You showed a total lack of compassion and understanding in my opinion.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
Put yourself in her shoes and imagine growing up in school having feelings of being the wrong sex.You must know how cruel children can be.What an awful existence that would have been.So I'll ask you again. If God makes people mentally hard wired to be attracted to the opposite sex.How and why do you propose that people can make homo people. What magic is this, that man can change something so strong as sexual attraction of his own free will? Why would he want to?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 9th, 2009
I KNEW THAT REVELATION ABOUT LIFE, PERSONAL CHOICE AND EXISTENCE ITSELF WOULD ABSOLUTELY BLOW YOUR MIND, MAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It Obviously has done the Job very nicely!!
Do you remember this conversation between us, mac??
You were friendlier then. So wot's happened to you mac????
How is it you seem to have deteriorated as a person??
MacJug:
Why Dennis, but you are the most entertaining person on here .It's very easy to get a chuckle reading about your views about snakes, fems, and gays.Brings back fond memories of Monty Python's stories.LOL
Avatar denidowi Sep, 25 2008 at 08:00 AM
Perhaps, we should make a movie, or write a book!!
Ja reckon it would sall??
Avatar macdjug-Paxvobiscum Sep, 25 2008 at 10:25 AM
It's ironic you should bring that up, for I thought the same thing.It might be the only way mainstream could see what a colorful character you are and digest your very original ideas..
Avatar denidowi Sep, 25 2008 at 07:35 PM
Yes; but How do you actually get that platformed, when for many decades now, the 'ruling class' has suppressed all genuine opposition to the point of absolute Ignorance of it??
That is, you manage to write or ring any of them, and they either put it in the 'too hard' basket, OR, in most cases, in the Trash Bin, symbolically 'Burying it'! ... thus pretending it will go away!
The general reaction of Powers that be is obviously: "Just another nut-case"!
Most of them come out of the very opposite framework anyway, and would be quick to simply suppress my ideas, or simply disdainfully ignore them.
They are making their handy paychecks; so why bother with a "John-the-Baptist" crying out in the middle of the wilderness/desert??
That was the final comment on the exchange.
by denidowi on May 9th, 2009
Mac, I'll tell ya wot:
I've had a better chance to actually read your comments.
Really, you've made a HUGE songn'dance about my genuine, simple comments to OK. I'm sure that if OK wanted to discuss my thoughts further, she would have done so. I'm sure that between us, we could have come to some understanding and genuine appreciation of one another, had she pursued our exchange. We would have made friends, had she pursued it, of course, and with our similar religious direction and background, have come to some consensus between us to the point of genuinely seeing "eye to eye", as modern scripture says of latter-day Zion. It clarifies that the reason latter-day Zion will succeed where all previous generations have failed is because "they shall see eye to eye who shall yet bring forth again Zion". That does not mean upon their very opening statements with one another, they shall be in perfect union, but it does mean that they shall peacefully work to bring common understanding between them.
OK and I would have worked through that one.
But you came jumping in to complicate matters, thinking you were being some kind of hero, coming to the aid of a damsel in distress.
Very noble of you mac ... but entirely misplaced.
Further, you didn't patiently give space for any possible exchange to occur between OK and myself.
Really, you jumped into a situtation of which you had but the least understanding of what was involved between us.
If anything, at this point, you have probably ruined anything that might have become nice between us.
Only the Spirit can salvage it from here, but He would probably be better off without your interference.
One thing I have learned in life, mac, is that relationships are really just between each pair of people. Your relationship is with me; it is not with some 3rd person - you and I have our relationship. OK and I have our relationship. It does not involve you.
I have learned that when more peopel become involved, especially in new friendships, it generally only complicates. It rarely facilitates. Certainly, you have proved that here!
by denidowi on May 9th, 2009
With all due respect Deni, I may have gotten older but I don't think I'm in a hyper state of deterioration lol. I haven't changed. I still view your work the same and still think it is very original stuff. That does not mean that I believe it to be fact.
Perhaps you don't see how negative your response was toward OK. She has already gone through sexual reassignment surgery and by all accounts is a woman.The only thing she can't do as a woman is bear children, but many woman can't. If I understand your feelings on this matter, you don't care to acknowledge this transformation as being valid? As long as she stays a woman, she is sinning? You need to understand what protocol is involved to be accepted for surgery. It is very rigid.Many physiological studies are conducted.I suggest you learn more about this phenomenon before you are so quick to judge.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 10th, 2009
Right before I interjected into the convo, I was totally surprised and caught off guard when I viewed your discourse about titillating sexual bed talk with other AB members. I know of a couple where the man did the same as you and the wife found out. She felt like she was betrayed and cheated on.Your behavior was on the borderline of coveting another's wife. As you full well know to even think of such a thing is a sin.
I should also let you know a friend of mine from H.S. surprised us all by having sexual assignment surgery in his 30's.It was at that point I learned just how painful his life had been. He was an awkward kid, not very masculine at all. He was constantly picked on and made fun of. Now she is a very charming person that has married a wonderful caring man. They have adopted two needy children and appear to be very happy. She is a legal secretary for a prestigious firm in San Jose, CA. So your negative put down to OK was close to home for me.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 10th, 2009
Well mac, I think the key is we need to let OK explain that for herself. I mean, your view may not quite be hers, and it was she and I that were originally trying to gain some clearer position on it between us, especially as she was announcing that she was speaking as an LDS.
Just re my own stuff, mac: I certainly don't speak as an LDS.
Yes, I do apologize on that stuff; I am aware that it is not right: we all have weaknesses, though I am not excusing myself. Our aim is to try to help one another: LDS are working together for that purpose. I was working with OK, but we needed to get her precise situation and perspective in place to know where it was going. We haven't really done that yet.
by denidowi on May 10th, 2009
Yes, I see your interest in OK's situation from the LDS viewpoint. And I certainly accept I can not speak for OK. However, I hope I have given you some insight to help you understand that it is no easy path to choose such a radical transformation. The alienation and pain these people have endured is difficult to comprehend.
You need not apologize to me Deni. However, I hope you think more about how much you love your wife and think about her feelings before you talk such nonsense again.
PAXVOBISCUM
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 10th, 2009
And, mac, how come you're now "PAXVOBISCUM" capitalized??
Re OK, I'm not even certain that the claim re membership lds is authentic, if you read some of the other things he/she has up.
Sometimes, people would rather the Church get the blame for something than their real interest group.
Then again, you get those that want to give the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a cock-eyed or bad name: so they try to pass themselves and their (obviously controversial) viewpoints off as LDS members.
Most members do not call themselves, "Mormons" anyway: the Church has asked us to state the name of the Church when speaking with people about it - LDS in preference to mormons, also, as I recall.
by denidowi on May 10th, 2009
Just wanted to emphasize 'Peace be with you'.LOL I also am suspicious of the same thing Deni. But from what I hear, the LDS spend to much time trying to have political sway with their beliefs.I have no use for that with a Religious order.I'm a prime believer in the separation of Church and state. I also think that Thomas Jefferson's concept in our Declaration of Independence is so important to consider in the light of those that we feel have different desires we don't fully comprehend."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 11th, 2009
Couldn't agree more there Macca.
Jefferson's part there, though I thought it was designed by many = mostly Franklin, holds so by me.
Joseph Smith said [ad libbing here] "The Pursuit of happiness is the purpose of life and will be the end thereof if we pursue the path that leads to it. And that path is goodness, virtue, faith, love, patience, etc etc and keeping all of the commandments of God"
Nevertheless, he proclaimed our divine right to CHOOSE such path or other.
by denidowi on May 11th, 2009
I used to think as you, about Franklin's involvement, but, Jefferson was the principal author of the D.O.I. and also coined the phrase,'separation between Church and state', which I'm sure you know, is a part of the First Amendment of our Constitution.He also was the author of The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. His diligent work protected our Great Country from becoming a Theocracy like the Religious Leaders of his day wanted.Thankfully, the great majority of the people believe in a Democracy.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 11th, 2009
Yes; I believe it is our Church's 11th or 12th Article of Faith that declares similarly, finishing with: "... let men worship, how, when or what they may".
by denidowi on May 11th, 2009
All I can say Deni, is I'm happy to live in a Democratic Country versus one that is a theocracy like Iran.It is common knowledge that the LDS financially backs legislation in line with it's philosophies. As I have already stated. I concur with our nations stance on the separation between Church and state.It is paramount to a democracy, and the will of the people shall prevail, not any Church.That was Jefferson's genius in recognizing the danger of a Church run state.He believed in inclusion, unlike the LDS.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 12th, 2009
I think you've badly misinterpreted BOTH - Jefferson and the Church, Macca ... but I think rather than carry on this largely hypothetical thread, where neither party is actually present to clarify, it's time to move on from this. It is OUR lives we need to put in order and live anyway, not those of others. It will be you and I that stand at the Bar of God to account for our actions and beliefs - we won't be giving account or testimony of Jeffo or anybody else.
by denidowi on May 12th, 2009
What I have relayed to you is fact about Jefferson, based on all available accounts of him.I've read a great deal about the man, and am convinced he was one of the most accomplished leaders that we have ever had. He was an Architect,archaeologist,inventor,Lawyer and of course President, amongst many other things.So,instead of making such an ignorant assumption, check it out for yourself and get the clarity you seek.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 12th, 2009
As far as the Church. You deny that the LDS Church doesn't have their own agenda and are contributors to political issues that run parallel with their philosophy. One thing is for sure. It will be a cold day in hell, when Utah allows a same sex union.LOL Only in this here USA could a Church like the LDS get a foothold because of people like Jefferson.But if Joseph Smith had his way, we would all be living in a Theocracy. That was his goal,right?To help save the other lost souls that follow the wrong path, whether it be other Christians atheists or Jews.?
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 12th, 2009
In closing, as far as standing before the Bar of God with you, I already accept eternal life,without the need of a separate entity to provide that for me like yourself.Perhaps you should read my thoughts again above in this thread.Maybe it went over your head because it is such a simple fact,and many don't get it. We are IT!!LOL
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 12th, 2009
Mac I think we should move on because you make grave judgments re others when you are not sufficiently in their shoes to genuinely give account.
I have done about 9 years university levels of 'material' [shall we say].
I know precisely how those with agendas are able to twist and 'orientate' [so=called] "evidence" to make things look a certain way. You are not dealing with any fool here mac.
WE ALL know for the initiatory starters, how badly evolutionists twist and connive and engineer their "evidences".
People read a letter the way they wish ... jsut as they do the scriptures.
I make it a personal rule, mac, not to judge the intent or meaning of others - espe in negative sense - if they are not actually there to defend or explain their position.
I certainly have no intent of doing that with Jeffo either, NOR Church leaders for that matter.
Salvation is your own personal pursuit. You can only save yourself ... but with God's atoning help. You can't save others.
When I spoke of us standing before the Bar of God to account, I obviously meant for our individual conduct; I did not mean I would be standing there during your accountingLOL!!
Hey, Mac ... change the subject to healthier stuff; I've already had 3 separate heart procedures!!!!LOL!
by denidowi on May 12th, 2009
Sorry to hear about your ticker. Perhaps you need to learn how to meditate and relax. Much study has been done on meditation, showing that the benefits are very beneficial to ones overall health, especially the heart. Since meditation isn't a belief system like many falsely think, you could maintain your faith. I'm in my 50's and have been meditating for many years now.My blood pr. is about 115/70 with a pulse of about 70 at rest. I also juggle everyday for 20-30 min. On top of that I do a Standing Chi Kung Meditation exercise for 50min a day.For me, these different disciplines help keep me in excellent mental and physical health.Is that healthy enough for you?LOL!!
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 13th, 2009
Mac, that sounds great.
Your kids must largely be grown up or left the roost.
I still have 3 at home; I have 7 altogether, and we look after Grandkidsas well during the week. Work is insufficient for our commitments most of the time ... and my bl pressure is more like 170 not 70!!LOL.
However, I have always had an excellent pulse rate - below 30bpm when I was young. Since procedures etc, it is more like 55 to 60 now, but the heart is strong; I just need better 'plumbing', they tell me. If the plumbing was good, I'd go over the 100 yr mark.
by denidowi on May 13th, 2009
We have only two kids, and they are out on their own now.No Grandkids yet, but there is still time. That is high for your bp.I too had what my Dr. said was an athletic heart when I was a teenager and into my twenties. I was into all the sports as I know you were.
However, when I was in my thirties my overall health took a nose dive.My parents got killed in a wreck and I turned into an angry,impatient and hateful man. I responded quickly with anger in a very negative and destructive way to those around me.I had been a Christian up to that time but I dropped God for letting my folks die.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 13th, 2009
That is water under the bridge now. I almost lost my family from my stupid behavior.I woke up one day and considered what was happening in my life and decided that I had to change.
That was a while ago and now I'm very content and happy with my station in life.I'm at peace. I no longer allow people or events outside of me to bring me to anger. My thought process has gone full circle. I now look forward to those that want to get my goat and be mean to me. They, without knowing have been instrumental in helping me learn patience.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 13th, 2009
The thing that changed my life the most was the regular practice of meditation.The Chinese consider meditation, Ti Chi,Chi Kung and other like exercises, internal healing alchemy.It can lower your BP, while at the same time calm and quiet the mind as it relieves stress. Since I know it can help those with cardiac issues, I wanted to share this link with you.
http://www.hearthealthyonline.com/heart-disease-overview/stress-management/meditation_1.html
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 13th, 2009
There are of course, many other informative sites to peruse for those that know how to think out of the box.You see Deni, I trust my bodies powers to heal itself and stay away from the drug store.Drug companies claim they have a pill for just about anything that ails you.I don't subscribe to that notion.Anyway, most medicines have terrible and dangerous side effects. Meditation doesn't.
You could say God has given our bodies the ability to heal from within. Meditation is just a mechanism to help utilize it.
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 13th, 2009
Here is another helpful link to Dean Ornish,MD. He has been very successful with his various programs of diet and relaxation techniques, keeping people with coronary disease out of the surgery room.
http://www.webmd.com/dean-ornish-md
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 13th, 2009
Thanks for this stuff, Macca.
I'll make some time and get a look at it some time ... not too far I hope.
Thanks
BTW, when I was on my building mission 35 years ago, the last home I stayed at: the lady ["sister"] whose house I was staying at had only recently been baptized: she had been doing Yoga and meditation for some years.
She has been an active member ever since and I think she still does her Yoga:I was only on the phone to her a few weeks back.
by denidowi on May 13th, 2009
Yoga is a wonderful practice. Studies have shown that practitioners of it in general, live a longer full and active life than those that don't.You may be able to get your BP down and alleviate the stress on your arteries and live to be 100. LOL I hope you find an exercise that will suit you. All the major hospitals in the states offer Yoga, Ti Chi and Chi Kung.I would imagine, the hospitals in OZ have the same....Good Luck!
by macdjug-Paxvobiscum on May 14th, 2009
Mac,
I thank you for defending me in this immensely wild business. I feel for your friend in H.S. I too was one of those kids.
Deni,
I implore you to first seek understanding before you speak ill of your fellow man. I am in fact an active member of my relief society and do attend sacrament meeting every sunday. I would appreciate it if you stopped simply saying someone is wrong when it is your belief, not a statement of fact.
Very Sincerely with love,
Olivia-Kate
by OliviaKate on May 14th, 2009
"Kate" with all respect, it would seem, from the inference re mac, that both Mac and I are having difficulty trying to fathom you as genuine LDS.
I say that not just through this particular thread, but the things you are saying and asking via other threads. We ALL have our probs, but as I pointed out to Mac, we certainly avoid mentioning that we are Church members, or claiming that 'As an LDS member, ...." and then going ahead and actually recomending something, more or less in the name of the Church, that is quite contrary to all things taight by God and our modern prophets.
I cannot fathom this tack you employ at all.
When I say things I probably shouldn't, I distance my claims and my name as being LDS connected. I would not lie if someone asked me ... but certainly, I would not offer my connection with LDS as part of the 'authority' for my answer!
These things you are doing with reference to the Church are just right off-limits LDS-wise.
Anyone can hold their own views, but please distance yourself from the Church in saying them.
by denidowi on May 15th, 2009