by Bridget_D8547 on March 24th, 2011

Poll

Help answer this question below.

Since Mormons know that Jesus is Jehovah, do they also know that he's the Father of Heaven and Earth, the Maker of all things?

"And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens." [Enos 1:4]

Mormons are taught that Jesus Christ is the Father of Heaven and Earth, the maker of all things, but most don't really bother to understand it. - 50% (1 vote) 50%

Mormons don't care that Jesus is Jehovah, nor do they acknowledge that he is the Father of Heaven and Earth. They've replaced Jesus with another member of the Godhead. - 50% (1 vote) 50%

Make Mormons read the Book of Mormon and understand it before they can claim to be Mormon. Then they'll know that Jesus Christ is the Father of Heaven and Earth, the Maker of all things. - 0% (no votes) 0%

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Answers. 8 helpful answers below.

by nick batchelor on March 25th, 2011
The official LDS CHURCH position is that there is a God higher than Jehovah.
It is "the Heavenly Father" called Elohim.

Does the questioner believe her church (the Mormon church) she belongs to or not?
Comments
- Nick, you are incorrect. Jesus Christ is not below anyone. Neither can he be. His name is above all names. He is the Stone of Israel.
  
  "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." [Acts4:9-10]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 25th, 2011
- So you disagree with the LDS Church you belong to that there is a "higher God" than Jehovah? Is your Mormon church incorrect? Please explain:
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 26th, 2011
- Nick, you are not a Mormon. Please don't lecture me on what is and is not correct doctrine. I was raised a Mormon since birth and I know perfectly well what Mormons are taught. And they are taught that Jesus Christ is Jehovah. As you no doubt know, that makes him the Most High God. I can't help it if there are some Mormons who are too obtuse to know the Lord God Almighty for who he is. I'm sure Pres. Monson is not that dim. He prays to the Lord and knows him. He knows Jesus Christ is his Savior and God.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 28th, 2011
- I am not lecturing you, I am asking what is the official doctrine and position of the LDS church, not what "some" Mormons believe. Are you sure President Monson does not believe that "Heavenly Father" is a higher God than Jesus (who is Jehovah according to you)? Are you positive that the Mormon church itself does not teach that "Heavenly Father," called ELOHIM is higher than Jesus Christ?
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 28th, 2011
- I am absolutely certain that President Monson understands the Godhead. He knows that Jesus Christ is the Lord of Hosts. I am positive that there is no church doctrine placing any member of the Godhead above the Lord, who is Jesus Christ. Mormons are taught that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, even in the most sacred settings, so they ought to take it seriously.
  
  Now, are there people who don't pay attention to the fact that the church teaches that Jesus Christ is Jehovah? Absolutely. They simply treat Jehovah like it's just another name and then they go on believing whatever they feel like. But you seem to be aware that Jehovah is God Almighty. So that means that Mormons who don't know that Jesus Christ is the Almighty, even Most High God, don't know very much at all. They are out of line with church doctrine.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 28th, 2011
- I just chatted with "Rochelle" at: http://mormon.org/
  
  She just confirmed to me that there is a God HIGHER than Jesus Christ and that "Heavenly Father" known as ELOHIM is Him.
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 28th, 2011
- Do you believe there is a "God" named "Elohim" that is different than Jesus Christ?
  
  Also, since you were raised a Mormon, can I ask you, "Have Mormons always believed Jesus is Jehovah?"
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 28th, 2011
- Who exactly is "Heavenly Father" to you?
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 28th, 2011
- Bridgett, a straight-forward question for you: "Is Jesus Christ distinct from his Father?" Yes or no.
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 31st, 2011
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by Does it matter? on March 25th, 2011
"Under the direction of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth (see Mosiah 3:8; Moses 2:1). From scripture revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith, we know that in the work of the Creation, the Lord organized elements that had already existed (see Abraham 3:24). He did not create the world “out of nothing,” as some people believe."-http://lds.org/study/topics/creation?lang=eng
this is what mormons "actually believe" note that Christ created the earth "UNDER THE DIRECTION" of the father and that the father is our heavenly father and NOT Christ. Christ is NOT the father of Heaven, however one could consider him the father of earth but if you read the pearl of great price it is clear the Christ wants the glory to be his fathers and not his own.
Comments
- Since Jesus Christ is Jehovah, that makes him the Father of Israel and our Maker. He is merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 25th, 2011
- you're claiming that we are "made" by Christ? let me ask you this, do you believe our spirit bodies were made by christ as well?
  
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  by Does it matter? on March 26th, 2011
- You do not know that Christ is our Creator? That surprises me.
  
  "Yea, I know that ye know that in the body he shall show himself unto those at Jerusalem, from whence we came; for it is expedient that it should be among them; for it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh, and die for all men, that all men might become subject unto him." [2 Nephi 9:5]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 28th, 2011
- you didn't answer my question. Do you believe it was Christ/ Jehovah that created our spirit bodies? Christ is the creator of this world but one cannot dismiss two important facts and still claim to be mormon: 1. Christ created the world under the direction of heavenly father. 2. Heavenly father is a distinct being from Christ with his own body and spirit and it is heavenly father who created our spirit bodies.
  
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  by Does it matter? on March 28th, 2011
- Unanonymous, you are not telling me anything I don't know. The members of the Godhead did indeed plan the creation, but the Lord is the Word and all things were created by his command.
  
  You ought to know that the Lord did indeed crown us with glory as his angels and give us our spirit bodies. You also ought to know that people's intelligence, or character, is their own and the Lord did not create it.
  
  I don't understand why you don't want to honor the Lord as our Creator and our King. He is the Father of Israel, our God and our fathers' God. We worship Christ. He is the Lord our God.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- I honor Christ and worship one Godhead comprised of three individuals two of whom have physical bodies of flesh and bone and one of which is a body of spirit. I will not elevate one above the other two as I feel that would be disrespectful. I will not lessen or forget the fathers role and replace him with the son. The role of both heavenly father and Christ respectively are made quite clear in scripture, by prophets and by the endowment ceremony. It is very hard for me to believe that a member of the church could have such misguided ideas about the roles of the members of the godhead. Have you asked your bishop some of the questions you pose on answerbag? I would be very surprised if he agreed with your views on the the role of Christ. Have you ever read Jesus the Christ?
  
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  by Does it matter? on March 29th, 2011
- I'm very surprised that you don't understand the nature of the Godhead, and that we worship Christ the Lord. In the Councils of Heaven, the members of the Godhead determined the plan of salvation. Jesus Christ was chosen as our God and Savior. Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit assist him. We all agreed to this in heaven.
  
  You are correct when you say there is no echelon in the Godhead. In other words, no one member is above the other. But you are incorrect in taking your focus off of the Lord, who is our God and Savior. At baptism, we make covenants with the Lord. In the temple we make covenants with the Lord. During the sacrament, we renew our covenants with the Lord. The scriptures testify of Jesus Christ, not of another member of the Godhead. It is Christ alone who is our Redeemer.
  
  How would you feel to hear over and over that we make covenants with the Holy Spirit? Or that the Holy Spirit sends the missionaries? Or that we must pray only to the Holy Spirit? Or that we worship the Holy Spirit? You can mention the Holy Spirit as being involved in these activities, but once you put the focus on him instead of on the Lord, you have gone astray.
  
  That's what a lot of members have done with Heavenly Father. They've put him in place of Jesus Christ. But his official role is different from that of Jesus Christ. It's Jesus Christ whom we worship. Jesus is full of grace and truth. Redemption comes through Christ our Savior, the Holy of Israel.
  
  And yes, he is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is a just God and a Savior, a father to the fatherless. He is the Father of Israel.
  
  If you do not know this for yourself, you would be well advised to seek the Lord in prayer, in all humility, that you might gain the testimony of the Holy Spirit on the truth.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- By the way, I have read Jesus the Christ. But more to the point, I have read the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Book of Mormon, the D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price many, many times. And countless times I have received the unequivocal witness of the Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ is the Lord of Hosts, the Father of Israel. [Isa. 63:16]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- Did you even read Moses 2:1?
  
  "And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I areveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest." Moses 2:1
  
  It should be clear to you by the phrase "by mine only begotten" (who is Jesus Christ) that It is Heavenly father speaking here, and what is it that he is saying? "I am the Beginning and the End," "Almighty God"
  
  Not only is there the witness of scripture, there are hundreds of talks by General authorities and Prophets, the Lords spokesmen on earth, who testify that Heavenly father is almighty G_d and that the earth was created by him through his son, Christ.
  
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  by Does it matter? on May 4th, 2011
- Yep. Here we go again. Do you realize that other Christians do not commit the blasphemy of claiming that there is another Lord besides Jehovah? The Lord is Jesus Christ, and he is speaking of his mission on earth. Who else would be speaking? Didn't you notice that Moses is speaking to the Lord. Again, I have to say to you, Jesus Christ is the Lord. If you do not understand the references the Lord makes to his mission as the Messiah, then you really ought to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance.
  
  "Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
  For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day." [Zec3:8-9]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on May 4th, 2011
- Just face it Bridget, your wrong on this one. The Prophets disagree with you, the general authorities disagree with you, an institute of religion disagrees with you, and the scriptures disagree with you.
  
  Why would Christ refer to himself as his only begotten son? You are taking a disturbingly Trinitarian view of G_d.
  No Mormon I have ever meet has tried to claim the Christ is the sole creator and did so under his own direction.
  
  The teachings in all church manuals, general conference talks and even the scriptures is that G_d the father is greater than the son, and that it was under his direction that Christ created the world and it's inhabitants.
  
  Even the primary manual that you are supposed to teach from says that the earth was created under the direction of the father. http://lds.org/manual/primary-6-old-testament/lesson-3-the-creation?lang=eng
  
  How can you be so erogant or close-minded to not see that what you are preaching, what you are teaching to primary children is flat-out wrong! It is very close if not apostasy.
  
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  by Does it matter? on May 4th, 2011
- Respectfully, Unanonymous, I have it straight from the horse's mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord.
  
  If you really think that Pres. Monson disagrees with me, why don't you check with him yourself?
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on May 4th, 2011
- Are you suggesting that the church produced manuals are wrong on this account of the creation? And by implication the men and women who received a call from G_d to write those materials are also wrong?
  
  Believe me if I could get an audience with pres. Monson i would ask him to write you a personal letter explaining the true nature of Christ and heavenly father
  
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  by Does it matter? on May 4th, 2011
- until then, excerts from this letter, from ALL 15 living apostles of christ to the whole world will have to do.
  
  "He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. UNDER THE DIRECTION of His Father, He was the creator of the earth."
  
  "He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father."
  
  "God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son."
  
  -The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles, (2000)
  
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  by Does it matter? on May 5th, 2011
- also i think you'll find it interesting that of the 23 TRUE mormons Polled here: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/poll-231-who-almighty-god.html
  
  0 said that Christ alone is almighty G_d. In fact a majority said that the title only applies to Heavenly Father.
  
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  by Does it matter? on May 8th, 2011
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by katy2 on March 24th, 2011
"Since Mormons KNOW that Jesus is Jehovah....."?

As "Jesus is Jehovah" is NOT FACT; then the best you can state is: "Since Mormons BELIEVE/HAVE FAITH.....".

Peace Truth and Love :-)
Comments
- Well, Katy2, if you do not know your own God, then perhaps you should correct that.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 25th, 2011
- "...MY own God" - MY "God/Jehovah" IS NOT Jesus Jesus is HIS SON, NOT HIM. Jesus is his Servant, NOT HIM. I need to correct NOTHING.
  
  Get it right. People like YOU, and your Church, are TRINITARIAN CHRISTIANS. People like me, and some churches, are UNITARIAN CHRISTIANS. Look up "Unitarian" and "Trinitarian" in a dictionary!
  
  Much as YOU would like to think that ALL Christians MUST believe as you, and your church do, NOT all do. Believing in the Trinity DOCTRINE seems right for you and YOUR Church. NOT believing in the Trinity DOCTRINE seems right for me and others like me.
  
  Who knows? Perhaps God is testing each one of us for "obedience" to HIM only; and not to what "people" are telling us to believe. I cannot know that "God" is not asking YOU, and the members of your Church, to be obedient to the Trinity Doctrine....just like YOU have zero idea as to what "God" is asking me to be obedient to.
  
  You and your church must be obedient to what "God" is telling YOU; I must be obedient to what "God" is telling ME.....
  
  AND, the very reason I have enquired of you as to how old you were when you started learning your religious beliefs:...unlike me; IF you were basically "raised" in the church from a very young age, then you have basically been "indoctrinated" (Indoctrinate: cause to believe something: to teach somebody a belief, doctrine, or ideology thoroughly and systematically, especially with the goal of discouraging independent thought or the acceptance of other opinions)
  
  Encarta.msn.com
  
  Fortunately for me, I was raised by atheists; therefore by the time I became interested in religion/Christianity; I was of an apppropriate age to question what I was being "taught" about Jesus; about God..... Most who are "indoctrinated" at a young age tend to head in one of two directions in their late teens kind of age: either, they strictly adhere to everything they have been taught, because they are unaware that there is "anything else"; or they completely turn their back on the church, and God, and Jesus, because they were sooo sick of being "forced" into something that they had no understanding of/interest in.
  
  Peace Truth and Love :-)
  
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  by katy2 on March 25th, 2011
- You are correct that your God is Jehovah, the Most High God. He is Jesus Christ, a just God and a merciful one, full of compassion, abundant in goodness and truth.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- I'm sure I've answered this elsewhere, but I was raised in the Mormon Church. I have not been indoctrinated. I have listened to the witness of the Holy Spirit, who is adamant that Jesus Christ is our Eternal God, even the Everlasting Father, the Almighty God.
  
  "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." [Isa. 9:6]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- "You are correct that your God is Jehovah, the Most High God. He is Jesus Christ, a just God and a merciful one, full of compassion, abundant in goodness and truth."
  
  Misrepresentation if ever I read one - but then why am I not surprised???
  
  I clearly stated: "MY own God" - MY "God/Jehovah" IS NOT Jesus Jesus is HIS SON, NOT HIM. Jesus is his Servant, NOT HIM. I need to correct NOTHING."
  
  Clearly stated that my God/Jehovah is NOT Jesus....and what is YOUR interpretation of that very clear; very precise comment:
  
  "You are correct that your God is Jehovah, the Most High God. He is Jesus Christ"
  
  Once again (and hopefully I shall not need to state it any more often for you: "I" DO NOT believe that God/Jehovah/Yahweh...IS JESUS.....
  
  Isaiah 9:6 - "crosswalk.com" has an Interlinear Bible. It's totally free. USE IT. Look up all of those words: Mighty, God, Everlasting, Father....see what the "original" word meant, and how many options are actually available to choose from.
  
  If you have problems trying to understand how to use it; feel free to contact me; and I will explain the steps to you.....
  
  At your age, PLEASE stop thinking that you already have all the answers that you need in life......I am 47, and I KNOW I don't have all the answers....I do have opinions; I do have MY OWN beliefs as a "stand-alone; non-church going; non-Trinitarian" Christian...and I am very happy to SHARE my perspective with others...NOT claim that ALL my beliefs are correct, and everyone else's is incorrect...
  
  As I have already said, you must abide by what you believe God is asking you to; and I must abide by what I believe God is asking me to....YOU cannot know what God is asking of ME.....
  
  Oh, and "raised Mormon" - then, yeah - based on the definition of the word "indoctrinated" - it would apply here....whether you want it to, or not. If you have been raised to believe that only Mormans have the right answers, and you believe it because that is all you ever hear in relation to religious beliefs.....The Holy Spirit confirms it? Yeah, that would be like a group of babies being separated out from the world for 15 years; deliberately taught "wrong" stuff; like 1+1=5; and then attempting to reintegrate those children into mainstream society...."No way....1+1 ISN'T 2 - IT'S 5!!! I just KNOW that it is.....YOU"RE WRONG! WE ARE RIGHT"...Unfortunately, most people will NOT question what they are being taught; but simply "accept" it as true.
  
  Tell me Bridget.....growing up, were you the kind of person who would question anything you weren't happy with; even if it was teachers, church leaders, parents, friends....???
  
  Peace Truth and Love :-)
  
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  by katy2 on March 29th, 2011
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by seahorse on March 26th, 2011
Regardless of what the Mormons believe, or know, it is what the Bible teaches that is the important thing , and the Bible certainly does not teach that Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah is God ,,Jesus is the son .

” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) The Scriptures identify Jesus as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.
That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.
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by whew6 on March 31st, 2011
Share your answer...
Comments
- Jesus Christ is the Father of Heaven and Earth, our all-powerful Creator. [Jacob 2:5]
  
  The Book of Mormon states this clearly many times:
  
  "And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary." [Mosiah 3:8]
  
  Moreover, members of the LDS church are taught that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, which confirms scripture.
  
  "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted. Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth. Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee." [Isa12:2-6]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on April 1st, 2011
- Share yours first. Lol
  
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  by Texasescimo on April 3rd, 2011
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by PrestorJohn on March 27th, 2011
voted: Mormons are taught that Jesus Christ is the Father of Heaven and Earth, the maker of all things, but most don't really bother to understand it.
Your choise in your poll are all ridiculous and completely biased. Way to be objective. Also, I didn't mean to vote, as I said, your choices are stupid.
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by The Holy Spirit on March 24th, 2011
voted: Mormons don't care that Jesus is Jehovah, nor do they acknowledge that he is the Father of Heaven and Earth. They've replaced Jesus with another member of the Godhead.
There is a misunderstanding of Jesus being God and one of the Godheads. Jesus is a mortal. My profile goes into detail on the subject matter.
Comments
- Jesus Christ is the Lord, and his tender mercies and his lovingkindnesses have been ever of old.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 25th, 2011
- @bridget: Jesus Christ is the "Lord" NOT the "LORD". Although they both "sound" exactly the same, Ps 110:1 shows that there is the LORD, and then there is my/the Lord....for one to be speaking to the other, they must both be SEPARATE.
  
  The LORD is our Father, and Jesus' Father; our God, and Jesus' God. The (Our) Lord is Jesus; unlike non-Christians, whose Lord was (if I remember correctly) the Roman Emperor, or his representative.
  
  NIV 1 Cor 8:6 - yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
  
  One God; AND one Lord......a very simple, very straightforward verse, which Trinitarians like to twist to suit their own purposes...oh well, we must each believe what "God" is asking us to. I will not listen to YOU, over God. And, again, as I have mentioned previously - how old are you? I unashamedly state on my profile that I am 47 years old....from memory, you have not stated yours. IF you are a mere teenager, or someone who is just out of their teen years; then perhaps you might want to consider using this site more as an opportunity to learn, rather than an opportunity to continually make the false claims that you do. Just a suggestion.
  
  Peace Truth and Love :-)
  
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  by katy2 on March 25th, 2011
- @Bridget D8547 and @katy2 You can believe as you wish, but I really know the truth about these issues.
  
  Note: I worship God who is immortal, which means not subject to death-never died. I will not infringe on anyone's rights to worship Jesus Christ, idols or individuals who do not believe in God.
  
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  by The Holy Spirit on March 25th, 2011
- Not exactly sure why you have addressed these issues at me, GEH. I continually stand by my non-Trinitarian, Jesus is NOT God, stance. And yes, I really do believe in God.
  
  Peace Truth and Love :-)
  
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  by katy2 on March 25th, 2011
- Ok, katy2. I am so glad that you believe in God and I wish that others would understand the difference. I have always believed in God, since I was a very small child and I am always shocked that so many people believe that Jesus Christ is God/Lord/Father/son and died on a cross. If they could grasp the meaning of immortal and mortal, part of the battle will be won in the understanding of God, who is immortal and never died. The Three Godheads consisting of God, Lord and Father all God also known as The Holy Trinity of God, one spirit, who wanted to be in two other positions with similar powers, abilities, bodies, thinking independently. God does not look anything like Jesus Christ and I realize that so many individuals have no idea to God's appearance, but I do. Peace be with you. :-)
  
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  by The Holy Spirit on March 25th, 2011
- I know....I find it extremely frustrating whenever I am having to speak to/communicate with people who believe that Jesus is God......It's like we are speaking two completely different languages...
  
  Peace be with you also.....:-)
  
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  by katy2 on March 25th, 2011
- In the near future so many individuals, who believe in Jesus will understand that he is not God, but something very different. They will feel ashamed.
  
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  by The Holy Spirit on March 26th, 2011
- Those of us who know the Lord will greet him with: "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation."
  
  Jesus Christ is the God of our salvation. We have no other.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation."
  
  I do not believe that this is in my Word of God (Bible)....can you please advise where this remark comes from?
  
  If from your own religious book/s; then I am confused as to how you can claim to be a Christian. What is the warning in Revelations: 22:18 New Living Translation (©2007)
  And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book.
  
  How do Mormons get around this verse in the BIBLE? If there is conflicting information between the Bible and Mormon books; which is considered the more accurate??? Or is it that the wording in the Bible gets twisted so that it then AGREES WITH what is written in Mormon books???
  
  Peace Truth and Love :-)
  
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  by katy2 on March 29th, 2011
- Isaiah 25:9 - " Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation."
  
  This is from the Bible. The Bible testifies that Jesus Christ is the Lord God of our salvation. He is our one and only Savior. [Isa. 43:11]
  
  Please study and learn Isaiah. It is vital that you understand it if you are to know the Lord.
  
  Also, the prophecy of John the Beloved known as the Book of Revelation did indeed include a warning not to alter John's words. However, it did not pertain to any other book of scripture, since the Bible as we know it did not exist in a single volume at that time.
  
  By the way, he who created the mouth shall speak. And he does. If you have not heard his voice, then you should get to know your Good Shepherd so you'll recognize him.
  
  "Understand, ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see? He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know? The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity." [Psa94:8-11]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on April 1st, 2011
- Bridget D8547, I have presented factual information on my profile. The information in the bible is NOT 100% correct.
  
  You indicated that Jesus Christ is your salvation. In your opinion, where is the saving occuring with Jesus?
  
  Everyone is responsible for their own sins. God makes sure that with each sin committed, pain and suffering will be endured by the sinner. God never removes sins from anyone's record and He keeps an account of the time and date as well.
  
  I accepted God's Control Agreement following my creation in Heaven and I will exist in Heaven for eternity, guaranteed.
  
  Note: I worship God who is immortal, which means not subject to death-never died. I will not infringe on anyone's rights to worship Jesus Christ, idols or individuals who do not believe in God.
  
  Read more: God throws Evil in Hell - Profile | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/profile/1450476#ixzz1IIgjybxn
  
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  by The Holy Spirit on April 1st, 2011
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by laie_techie on March 24th, 2011
There is no choice for what TBMs really believe.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that Jesus is Jehovah and the Creator. The Church does NOT teach that he's the Father -- that role belongs to Elohim whom we call our Heavenly Father, God the Father, or our Father in heaven.
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- Do you believe there is a God higher than Jehovah.
  
  What does Psalms 83:18 say?
  
  That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth. (Psalms 83:18; KJV)
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 25th, 2011
- "over all the earth" being the key word there. that does not logically exclude the possibility of a god who is most high over all and not just the earth.
  
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  by Does it matter? on March 25th, 2011
- LOL! That's a good one! Fortunately we have more Scriptures to examine that show Jehovah is not just Almighty "over the earth." I shared my findings with a respected Mormon recently, can I share them with you?
  
  I’m going to quote these verses from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures since it has restored the Divine Name, Jehovah, in every place where the Tetragrammaton is shown in the oldest Hebrew manuscripts: You can also check other sources like the Young's Literal Translation as well. But here are a few examples:
  
  Deuteronomy 10:14 “Behold, to Jehovah your God belong the heavens, even the heavens of the heavens, the earth and all that is in it.”
  
  Joshua 2:11b “…For Jehovah your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath.”
  
  1 Kings 8:23 “And he went on to say: ‘O Jehovah the God of Israel, there is no God like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath.”
  
  Note: “no God like you…” Jehovah is unmatchable, and has no rivals. There is none higher!
  
  1 Chronicles 29:11 “Yours, O Jehovah, are the greatness and the mightiness and the beauty and the excellency and the dignity; for everything in the heavens and the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Jehovah, the One also lifting yourself up as head over all.” Jehovah is “head over all” which means that there is no God above him!
  
  Psalm 103:19 “Jehovah himself has firmly established his throne in the very heavens. And over everything his own kingship has held domination.”
  
  We see that Jehovah’s kingship holds domination, or rules, over “everything”. There is no God in a higher position than Jehovah—the very God of Jesus—the One to whom Jesus prayed.
  
  The Scriptural facts combine to tell us there is NO OTHER GOD ABOVE JEHOVAH, please look carefully at these Scriptural references. If you take the time to do this, you will see the consistency of what the Bible teaches concerning Jehovah.
  
  Let me know what you think.
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 25th, 2011
- JWs at least understand that Jehovah is the Most High God, although they will not admit he is Jesus Christ. I have begun to realize that some Mormons are being hypocrites. They say Jesus is Jehovah, then they turn around and deny he is the God of Israel. What prevents Mormons from knowing what the Old Testament says about Jehovah? It is a contradiction to admit that Jesus is Jehovah and then not allow him to be.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 25th, 2011
- I am with you on this Bridgett Jehovah is "the Most High." And, no, not just "over the earth" as our confused poster tried to insinuate. The Bible does tell us that Jesus is "the Son of the Most High." (Luke 1:32) This is what Jehovah's Witnesses gladly accept. The Most High according to Scripture is JEHOVAH. (Psalms 83:18)
  
  We can talk more about if Jesus IS Jehovah more if you like. I actually welcome this discussion anytime. Please invite me but be willing to stick around. A friendly challenge. Think it over.
  
  What you are not admitting is that the official church doctrine of the LDS church (which you are a member of as you stated on AB adamantly) teaches that there is a God "higher" than Jehovah.
  
  Do you feel the church is wrong? What does your President believe? Would you call him a hypocrite? Please explain.
  
  ________________________________________________________________.
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 26th, 2011
- Well, Nick, I can see you at least understand that Jehovah is the Father of Heaven and Earth. You have obviously studied the Bible enough to know he is the Most High God. So you can appreciate why you cannot say that our Savior Jesus Christ is Jehovah and then say he's not really the Father of anything.
  
  I freely admit that many members of the church are confused on this issue. Despite the fact that they are repeatedly told Jesus Christ is Jehovah, they will not allow it. What more can be done? If they will not listen to what the prophet says and read the scriptures for themselves, they will continue to be clueless.
  
  By the way, I've already said that the church does not put another member of the Godhead higher than Christ. There are, however, a number of uneducated Mormons who just treat Heavenly Father as if he is Jesus Christ. They only stop short of nailing him to the cross. In everything else, it's Heavenly Father this, Heavenly Father that, when the scriptures stipulate that it is the Lord. I'm sure you've heard Mormons say that the Book of Mormon is another witness of Christ. Guess what? It's not a witness of another member of the Godhead. The scriptures testify of Jesus Christ, that he is our just God and Savior, that he is full of grace and truth.
  
  I can assure you that President Monson is not in the dark as to this fact. Indeed, I am sure that he not only knows that Jesus Christ is the Lord of Hosts, but daily communes with him. And yes, you would call that prayer. There is no prohibition against praying to the Lord Jesus Christ. Any Mormon who thinks so does not know his own God and Savior.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 29th, 2011
- I told you I called Mormon.org and spoke to Rochelle. She told me that there was a God higher than Jesus Christ named Elohim and that he was "the Heavenly Father." She confirmed it. The two local missionary men I meet with also told me the very same thing. Other Mormons on AB also verify it. You are wishing it wasn't true but it is.
  
  My question was also, "Have Mormons always believed Jesus is Jehovah?" Please respond. A simple yes or no will do.
  
  Jesus prayed, "Our Father in heaven" (Matthew 6:9). Please tell me, "Who was he praying to?"
  
  What does Jesus himself say as recorded in John 6:46?
  
  "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." (King James Version)
  
  Jesus was not His Heavenly Father. Yes, I agree with the Mormon church that they are "one in purpose" and that they are not the same Being or individual.
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 29th, 2011
- Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23 teaches that, Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.
  
  Do you believe this?
  
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  by nick batchelor on March 29th, 2011
- Nick, the title Firstborn means over all. This is a title for the Everlasting God, Jehovah. A Mormon should know that this is Jesus Christ.
  
  "Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
  And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last; And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else." [Alma 11:38-40]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on April 1st, 2011
- "Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for he is one of them. He is the Son, as they are sons or daughters of Elohim."
  
  (Gospel Doctrine, 69)
  
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  by nick batchelor on April 1st, 2011
- Bridget, when we are turly converted and are baptized, we are spiritually born of Christ; we become his sons and daughters. This is in contrast to God the Father who is the Father of the spirits of all - both the righteous and the wicked. We become Christ's children because we choose to follow him.
  
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  by laie_techie on April 1st, 2011
- Why is it every Mormon I have ever spoken with on AB, and in person, recognizes that Jesus is not His Heavenly Father. Everyone has told me that Jesus is one in unity and purpose with His Father but not one in Being. I've called official representatives of the LDS church as well on this topic.
  
  Other sources seem to confirm this:
  
  http://www.mormonwiki.com/Jesus_Christ
  
  "Jesus, on the other hand, declares the nature of His unity with the Father: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. ~John 17:20-22
  
  Jesus declares that His disciples can be one just as He and the Father are one. This oneness is obviously not that they become the same person, but rather oneness in purpose, glory, perfection, and love. This passage also shows Jesus praying to the Father, which would not make sense if He were the Father. Other passages in the New Testament show that Jesus is distinct from the Father:
  At the baptism of Jesus all three personages of the Godhead—God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, were there (Matthew 3:15-17). In the great intercessory prayer recorded in John 17, Jesus prays to the Father. In the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross, Jesus again prayed to the Father and once asked His Father why He had forsaken Him (see Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34). At the Martyrdom of Stephen in Acts 7, Stephen declares, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God” (Acts 7:56).
  
  All these passages make sense only if Jesus and God are separate individuals. In short, the rejection of Trinitarian notions is not a rejection of Jesus Christ. The original saints and Apostles neither taught nor hinted at the doctrine in the later Creeds, and their Christianity is crucical to the claims of all Christian churches." (unquote)
  
  Anyone care to comment on this statement in particular?
  
  "All these passages make sense only if Jesus and God are separate individuals."
  
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  by nick batchelor on April 2nd, 2011
- Jesus Christ is Jehovah. The other members of the Godhead are not Jesus Christ. He alone is Lord. He is, indeed, the Father of heaven and earth.
  
  "And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary." [Mosiah 3:8]
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on April 4th, 2011
- How do you explain Jesus own words, "My father is greater than I am" in John 14:28?
  
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  by nick batchelor on April 4th, 2011
- Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD, not God himself. Jesus can be called the father of heaven and earth since he created them (under the direction of his Father). Jesus is not the Father of our spirits, so he is not our Heavenly Father; that role goes to God the Father.
  
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  by laie_techie on April 4th, 2011
- Jesus himself said: "I live because of the Father." (John 6:57) This does not make me think he was the Father.
  
  Bridget, can you please describe to me what you see Jesus Christ doing in this often glossed over text below. Please do not ignore this. I really want to hear what you have to say. Here it is:
  
  1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (King James Version)
  
  24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
  
  25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
  
  26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
  
  27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
  
  28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
  
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  by nick batchelor on April 5th, 2011
- "Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD, not God himself"
  
  I understand what you meant Laie, but you statement is technically incorrect. Jesus IS God himself, your statement should read: "Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD, not God The Father (i.e. Heavenly Father)"
  
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  by Does it matter? on June 2nd, 2011
- Although Jesus Christ is not the being that Mormons refer to as "Heavenly Father," Jesus Christ is the Father of Heaven and Earth. He is the Lord God Almighty who himself put on the helmet of salvation and redeemed us from death and hell.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on June 2nd, 2011
- Bridgett, please explain the passage I have been requesting you to for how long now? (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
  
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  by nick batchelor on June 2nd, 2011
- Nick, I have repeatedly explained to you that Jehovah is the Father Redeemer of Israel and that he is Jesus Christ, our only Savior. Please stop trying to come up with scriptures you don't even understand and throwing them around. All scripture testifies that Jesus Christ himself is the Father of Israel, so I suggest you drill that into your head so you can understand it. It's evident that you want to deny the divinity of Christ, but just give it up. If you refuse to understand the condescension of God, there's no having any rational discourse with you.
  
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  by Bridget_D8547 on June 2nd, 2011
- If Jesus is the Father how does he hand over the Kingdom to "his God" and "his father"? Do explain.
  
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  by nick batchelor on June 2nd, 2011
- If a Mormon uses the title God without qualifying it, 99.9% of the time they mean God the Father.
  
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  by laie_techie on June 2nd, 2011
- Thank you. So it would be rational to think that Jesus was not the God and Father that he hands over the kingdom to after all.
  
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  by nick batchelor on June 3rd, 2011
- you would be correct Nick, but in LDS theology Jesus does sometimes rightfully hold the title of Father.
  
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  by Does it matter? on June 3rd, 2011
- Only in a different sense than that of "THE Father" his heavenly God and Father Jehovah whom he himself worships. Abraham is called "father" in another sense. So is Paul and others. Context is king.
  
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  by nick batchelor on June 3rd, 2011
- Nick, you almost have it, just that LdS identify Elohim as God the Father, and Jehovah as Jesus Christ (God the Son), but otherwise your comment lines up with orthodox Mormonism.
  
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  by laie_techie on June 3rd, 2011
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Mormons say that Jesus was Jehovah, who gave us the 10 Commandments. In the 1st Commandment Jehovah said, 'Do not have any other gods before me.' Since Mormons do not pray to Jesus, but to "God the Father". Isn't that violating the 1st Commandment?

((For Mormons))If there are numerous Gods....and they don't seem to defined by names how do they know which to direct prayer to or which is Jesus' real father? And if God is/was a man who was Jesus' father how come we don't know his real name?

If the Father is Elohim and Jesus is Jehovah (as the Mormons teach), how does a Mormon explain Deuteronomy 6:4, which in the Hebrew says, “Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah”?

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