MORMONS: The 'good fruit' of Mormonism - pure lives, high standards, loving families, good works, miracles, etc. - prove that it's of God.

>by their fruits shal ye know them<

Let's look at that passage in it's full context shall we?
Matthew 7 (NIV)
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 12th, 2009

So the key questions here are, "What is meant by 'fruit' in this passage?" and "WHOSE fruit are we supposed to inspect - the Prophet or the Prophet's followers?"

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 12th, 2009

And I'm curious why you answered, "False" when you comment seems to be saying "True". Could you help me understand?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 12th, 2009

it is evidence to support the assessment, very good evidence. not absolute proof. god set up the world so there would not be absolute proof of anything spiritual.

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by TAPriceCTR s son is wearing his COAT on December 13th, 2009

Jesus Christ is absolute proof. He was here. His actions were reported not only by the apostles, but also by Roman, Greek, Hebrew ETC documentation.

And you analogy with the "murder weapon".

That is not good evidence for anything, except that a weapon was found in the house.

Finding the weapon, does not indicate...
who put it there.
who used it.
who owned it.

By itself, it is evidence of nothing and leads to total speculation.

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by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 3rd, 2010

There is no "fruits" to examine in your scenario.

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by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 3rd, 2010

>it is evidence to support the assessment, very good evidence. not absolute proof. god set up the world so there would not be absolute proof of anything spiritual<

Say what?

I think you've been reading and/or listening to Hugh Nibley too much and had your brain turned into scrambled eggs - like his.

And here's my evidence for THAT assertion:

"As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted."

"All scholarship, like all science, is an ongoing, open-ended discussion in which all conclusions are tentative forever, the principal value and charm of the game being the discovery of the totally unexpected."

http://www.gaia.com/quotes/Hugh_W_Nibley

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on February 3rd, 2010

"jesus christ is absolute proof". (of what, himself?) he is the savior, but unless he is standing before you in person he is not proof. infact he is not even evidence.... the evidence of him is the comforter. the holy ghost. "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven" even for his apostles who saw him face to face. personaly witnessed him performing miracles, he was not evidence of himself, revalation was.
if there is absolute proof then there is no faith. had a mormon made such a fruitless claim in support of the church I would rip on them for their failure of intelligence (I have done it too. a correct conclusion based on flawed logic is still incorrect)

on a side note. MIT, I was very pleased to discover that in topics outside of your crusade topic that we are able to get along.

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by TAPriceCTR s son is wearing his COAT on February 3rd, 2010

>I was very pleased to discover that in topics outside of your crusade topic that we are able to get along<

Well there you go!

Maybe I'm human after all - in addition to being a, "Child of the Devil and enemy of the only true church" of course!

;-)

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on February 3rd, 2010

Joe, could you provide supporting citations for your assertions.

And just for the record, you're not Mormon correct?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on February 3rd, 2010

For the record, no I am not Mormon.

Yes I will give yeah some links... I have to find them

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by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 3rd, 2010

I am not find this straight away. All I did was do searches for...
Death rate
child abuse rate
child death rate below 8 years old
Utah crime statistics
child protection project web site


I will keep looking, yet I have so much stuff to sort through.

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by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 3rd, 2010

Well I'm recommend that you hold off on posting until you have some substantive links to back your assertions. Evidence always trumps opinion and without substantiation all you've really got is opinion.

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on February 3rd, 2010

That is all well and good. The information is out there. You can look it up.
I have come to realize that this site is by en large, a waste of time. Mormons don't want to hear truth, no matter how clear and precise it is.

They are not interested in truth. If there alleged prophet came out today and said it was all a lie, they would not listen. They have nothing, emptiness and sorrow fill there lives. Yet, like mice on a sinking ship, they hang in there. It is truly and completely sad.
So, with that said, for several months, you may have noticed that my responses are usually very short. It is because I tire of seeing truth and than being called a liar, taken out of context, anti-Mormon, a hater, bigot, you name it. So, I printed the situations that I looked up and saved them to word documents. I used the general websites, IE .gov, looking at court history, police records etc. a lot of the info refers to flds and rlds, yet all was located in Utah. A lot was in Colorado City Utah, I even believe they have an infant cemetery. I have not been able to locate it as yet, but have seen it mentioned on different sites.

Reading peoples exit testimonies. Dozens and dozens of people, exiting Mormonism. Stating the same things. Talking of abuse of children, relocating/uplifting mothers and daughters to new homes, because dad needed to find the truth. Sisters being forced to marry older men. Families destroyed by this cult.

Yeah, I do not have situations, but it really makes no difference. You, as a Mormon scholar, will look this stuff up for your self. A Mormon will just ignore it and fall back on the testimony.

I an coming to the belief that only a one on one will be able to help these people out of this horrific situation they are trapped in.

Linda Walker has a lot of info as well.

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by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 3rd, 2010

Joe, stay the course man. Why don't you come over to the CC board and start a thread on this.

You might be surprised at what you hear. AND you can hear from (polite and respectful, not hostile) ExMormons who at one time displayed ALL the behaviors that are frustrating you but Love still broke through.

I would be remiss if I didn't point out that it's always dangerous to overgeneralize. There ARE reasonable Mormons - and some of them are on this board.

However, there do indeed seem to be far more snapped Mind Control Cultists in Mormonism than clear thinking reasonable ones - I'll give you that. And yes we've got some of those on this board as well.

Anyhow, enough of my yackin' - come on over to CC and pull up a chair. I think that you'll like it there, there are some good folks.

http://www.concernedchristians.com/

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on February 3rd, 2010

Thank you for your answer.

>However, if you throw in the fact that our Church is guided and directed by God and Christ through a living Prophet, you might hit the nail right on the head<

That's quite a bold and broad reaching claim. What evidence can you produce to prove it?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 7th, 2010

Obviously no proof.

Although,
The Mormon church is in competition with a few others saying the exact same thing.

Catholics
World Wide Church of God
Jehovah's Witnesses
The Way International
Muslims

They and many others, say exactly the same thing as the Mormons.

They all profess emphatically, that they are the one true church.

They all state there was a total apostasy and a need for a restoration.

Yest, Jesus Christ said....
Matthew 16:18
"upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,"
\
Who is lying, Jesus or the others?

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by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 3rd, 2010