MORMONS The Godhead consists of 3 persons, each of which is a god in his own right & is separate from the others in every way except purpose

So your vote is . . . ?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on February 17th, 2010

So Mormonism is now Trinitarian?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on April 16th, 2011

While I often know the commonly acknowledged and/or OFFICIAL answer I am very often QUITE surprised at how many Mormons answer the question OR respond to it.

For example you will notice that YOU voted "True" but as of this writing two other Mormons have answered "False".

Hence I have learned from hard experience to never assume when it comes to what Mormons truly believe.

The bigger question is two-fold:

1) Why don't Mormons consistently answer doctrinal questions per the official stance?

2) If Mormon laity is out of sync with Mormon clergy which stance is TRUE?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 7th, 2010

I was in a hurry when I voted the 1st time. If I'd had read your whole question, I would have voted false. But because of my rush to get to an appointment, I voted incorrectly...my bad...Later

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by whew6 on April 16th, 2011

Thank you for clarifying.

BTW, Whew, here's a quote that made me think of you when I read it:

"As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason.

Delusion becomes a choice."

Maybe, we could add this to your AB Profile!

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on April 16th, 2011

Thank you for your answer.

However, I think that you're dodging.

Isn't the Godhead comprised of three beings united in purpose - all who have their own spirit bodies and two who have physical bodies and have followed the plan of salvation and been deified as a result of their worthy obedience?

So logically that means that they are indeed, "3 persons, each of which is a god in his own right & is separate from the others in every way except purpose" does it not?

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 6th, 2010

"We declare it is self evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings."
(Jeffrey R. Holland, "The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent," Ensign, Nov. 2007, 41)
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=23bd6f3d78dd9110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=eef0ff5fa50ca110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&topic=Godhead

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 6th, 2010

I did not argue that the members of the Godhead are not distinct, just that you oversimplified their unity to being limited to them having the same purpose.

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by laie_techie on January 6th, 2010

"Our first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is 'We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost' (Articles of Faith 1:1). We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true."
(Jeffrey R. Holland, "The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent," Ensign, Nov. 2007, 40)

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=23bd6f3d78dd9110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=eef0ff5fa50ca110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&topic=Godhead

So what am I missing?

Holland FIRST states EXPLICITLY states that the Godhead, "are separate persons, three divine beings." (which is polytheism) then pulls tries to gloss it over with, "I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable"

It's classic double-speak:
"Doublespeak (sometimes called doubletalk) is language constructed to disguise or distort its actual meaning, often resulting in a communication bypass. Doublespeak may take the form of euphemisms (e.g., "downsizing" for layoffs) or deliberate ambiguity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 6th, 2010

Let's go over this one more time the Trinity is: Three SPIRITUAL persons, one SPIRITUAL being.

It's NOT (as so many Mormons consistently miss it): One SPIRITUAL person, three SPIRITUAL beings.

And NONE limited to physical bodies for as the Bible plainly states:

John 4:24
God is spirit

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 6th, 2010

The Bible also says that "God is love", but that doesn't mean God's matter is comprised of love. Also, Jesus has a physical body post resurrection. He ate fish and honey with his disciples, and his Apostles touched (and felt) him.

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by laie_techie on January 7th, 2010

>The Bible also says that "God is love", but that doesn't mean God's matter is comprised of love<

Your argument is irrelevant since the context of the passage within the epistle is clearly describing God's CHARACTER not His physical form:

John 4
7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

In addition you've been bit by the crappy KJV translation again. The passage John 4:23-24 passage in question can be alternately be translated from the original language as, "God the Spirit, is seeking those who worship Him in spirit and in truth."

Or if you prefer here's Young's Transliteration:

"God [is] a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'"

Still not convinced? Well the Amplified transliterates it VERY elegantly and thoroughly this way:

"God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality)."

Doubt me? Doubt Young? Doubt the Amplified?
Here you go: http://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh4.pdf

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 7th, 2010

>Also, Jesus has a physical body post resurrection. He ate fish and honey with his disciples, and his Apostles touched (and felt) him<

And your point is?

My response is "big whoop!"

After all in the Christophanies in the Old Testament Christ always appears in a physical body (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophany#In_the_Bible) wrestling, eating meals, touching, etc., etc., etc.

It's a small matter for an omnipotent Being of Spirit to appear as physical in the physical realm that He Himself created. A small matter indeed.

However, that doesn't mean that it's His "native" state and the Bible tell us explicitly that it isn't.

Despite what Joseph Smith's puffed up ego, vivid imagination and Theologically ignorant mind told him he not ONLY got God's nature wrong but taught another God than the one in the Bible.

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on January 7th, 2010