- NEW!
Let's suppose hypothetically that we are friends at work and we've known each other for years. (I really do consider some of you friends just from my interaction with you here on AB).
I invite you and your spouse over to my house for a dinner party so that our families can get to know each other better. We will have dinner. We will have lots of conversation. We might play some games and then go out and grab an ice-cream or something.
I and my wife are practicing Mormons.
Do you accept my invitation?
If no, please explain why.
by HShawaybei
on November 25th, 2011
voted:
Yes, I accept. What can I bring?
by Gratefully Me on November 25th, 2011
by nick batchelor
on November 26th, 2011
voted:
Yes, I accept. What can I bring?
by JakobA I^_^I the alooney on November 26th, 2011
by Doc
on December 6th, 2011
voted:
Yes, I accept. What can I bring?
by Doc
on November 28th, 2011
voted:
Yes, I accept. What can I bring?
by Abbyguy on November 29th, 2011
Jehovah's Witnesses: Do you believe that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. "Mormons") belong to a cult?
by Mike Astill on December 3rd, 2011
| 1 person likes this
Did the Jehovah's Witnesses roots come out of the Catholic Church....why do JW's use a catholic bible?
by discipleofjesus on February 24th, 2012
| 1 person likes this
If you believe the bible is infaliable, what evidence or facts can you point to that support this view?
by discipleofjesus on February 24th, 2012
| 1 person likes this
Rather or not you agree with JW’s, do you believe that mob violence is ever justified? Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy9lQjwwbEM
by Texasescimo on January 14th, 2012
| 1 person likes this
What do you not understand about Jehovah Witnesses?
by arigato on January 27th, 2012
| 4 people like this
You're reading Jehovah's Witnesses: Do you accept my invitation to come to my house for dinner?
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Comments
Thank you for your answer. Very insightful.
by Mike Astill on November 25th, 2011
Quote: I put my relationship with God above you.
You do not put your relationship with God above others. This is only another JW deception.
If you are a landlord, you do not put your relationship with God over collecting your rent.
If you are a tenant, you do not put your relationship with God over paying your rent on time.
If you drive a car, you do not put your relationship with God over making payments on you car insurance.
For you to say that you would not socialize with a non JW, in a friendly gathering environment, is selfish. It is like making Jehovah your personal God and not anyone else's.
by antibiotic on November 26th, 2011
Antibiotic, why don't you try to be a little bit reasonable?
If there was a conflict between ones relationship with God and collecting rent, there are those that would put there relationship with God over collecting rent.
Same thing with all of your other analogies.
by Texasescimo on November 26th, 2011
Usually a church places a person's financial obligations at 10% of income. One's rent is usually 33% of income.
Refusing to pay tithe gets one kicked out of church.
Refusing to pay rent gets one kicked out of one's apartment/house.
Financially there is a point to be made here. Although I don't know what it is.
Honestly it does not seem connected whatsoever with the idea of excessive dinner invitations.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 26th, 2011
Antibiotic, in one of your previous profiles you posted something in German. I know that some people will use google to translate something in another language and copy and paste it. If you can actually read German, you can click on a copy of the actual document and read it.
JW's that would not sign the following document gave up any rent they would have collected as well as no longer paid any rent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_in_Nazi_Germany#Persecution Translation of Declaration Document
Concentration camp .......................................
Department II
DECLARATION
I, the ...................................................
born on ..................................................
in .......................................................
herewith make the following declaration:
I have come to know that the International Bible Students Association is proclaiming erroneous teachings and under the cloak of religion follows hostile purposes against the State.
I have therefore left the organization entirely and made myself absolutely free from the teachings of this sect.
I herewith give assurance that I will never again take any part in the activity of the International Bible Students Association. Any persons approaching me with the teaching of the Bible Students, or who in any manner reveal their connections with them, I will denounce immediately. All literature from the Bible Students that should be sent to my address I will at once deliver to the nearest police station.
I will in the future esteem the laws of the State, especially in the event of war will I, with weapon in hand, defend the fatherland, and join in every way the community of the people.
I have been informed that I will at once be taken again into protective custody if I should act against the declaration given today.
.................................., Dated ................
...........................................................
Signature
by Texasescimo on November 26th, 2011
Hello ErgoStep, just saw your comment. Christians are not under obligation to pay tithes. Supporting those in your family in need takes precedent over giving money to a religion.
(2 Corinthians 8:12-13) For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not mean for it to be easy for others, but hard on YOU;
(2 Corinthians 9:7) Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
(1 Timothy 5:8) Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.
(Mark 7:9-13) Further, he went on to say to them: “Adroitly YOU set aside the commandment of God in order to retain YOUR tradition. 10 For example, Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ 11 But YOU men say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother: “Whatever I have by which you may get benefit from me is corban, (that is, a gift dedicated to God,)”’— 12 YOU men no longer let him do a single thing for his father or his mother, 13 and thus YOU make the word of God invalid by YOUR tradition which YOU handed down. And many things similar to this YOU do.”
by Texasescimo on November 26th, 2011
Tex, you're the one with a conflict, not me.
by antibiotic on November 26th, 2011
Ergo,
The only point I see us being derailed to, is an issue of money.
My church doesn't require, request or think about with the siltiest notion that I have to contribute 10% of my weekly employment wage or any percentage of my salary.
I don't know what church you belong to, but no one in my parish has been kicked out for not contributing to a donation in church. We are expected to donate, but not obligated to.
I guess you missed the point, though.
by antibiotic on November 26th, 2011
Cute! Lol
Antibiotic, your Church allows you to read the Bible now. You might try it.
Unicorns really do not exist and there are Catholic translations out there: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2041886
by Texasescimo on November 26th, 2011
Why Jehovah's Witnesses Have Mental Problems
Lesson #1
A scientific literature review found that the rate of mental illness among Jehovah's Witnesses is considerably above average. The specific level found in the research varies partly because the extant research was on different populations and time periods. The major factors identified as either helpful or harmful to Witness mental health were discussed. Although persons with emotional problems tended to join the Witnesses, the Watchtower teachings and its subculture clearly adversely affected the mental health of those involved. The official Watchtower attitude on mental illness was also examined as were the common beliefs about the problem among Witnesses.
by antibiotic on November 26th, 2011
Churches sometimes track who is giving and who is not. Usually the smaller churches are more insistent that everybody pay.
Supporting those in your family in need takes precedent over giving money to a religion.
An excellent point. I hear televangelists talking about the Widows Mite and raise an eyebrow.
My impression is that the tithe was a temple tax, and with the death of Jesus the temple was no longer necessary. He was basically starting a new religion.
So I think it is fair to say that Jews tithe, Christians are overshadowed with the idea of tithing.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 27th, 2011
Antibiotic, who in the photo's below look more like thay have mental illness?
A group of Jehovah's Witnesses in their camp uniforms after liberation
http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=79273B
Clergy with the Nazi’s:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.php?ModuleId=10005206&MediaId=577
Who did the right thing morally?
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/9809848
Who followed the Christian Greek Scriptures?
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/10764539
(John 16:2-3) Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.
(Revelation 2:10) Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.
(Revelation 13:10) If anyone [is meant] for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.
by Texasescimo on November 27th, 2011
The History Of The Watchtower Reveals the Sources of Mental Problems.
Lesson #2
Jehovah's Witnesses were organized in the late 1800's by Charles Taze Russell, a second Adventist disappointed in the failed prophecies of his fellow religionists. He soon reinterpreted these prophesies and set his own new dates. He first taught the time of the end started in 1798 (latter changed to 1799), that Christ had returned invisibly in 1878 (latter changed to 1874), and that a new world wherein the righteous would dwell forever on a paradise Earth would begin in 1914.[1] With his father's fortune, Russell preached tirelessly, yet when he died only a small band of followers existed as a result of all his efforts.
The second president, a lawyer named Rutherford, used his law background to create one confrontation after another with the state and almost everyone else including business, medicine and even religion. Soon Jehovah's Witnesses became infamous throughout the world for their legal clashes which often involved violence.[2] A fighter with no small legal skills, Rutherford recruited several other attorneys and the Watchtower soon had themselves positioned as martyrs. The small band of devoted--some would say fanatical--followers, they achieved something that no amount of money could buy: name recognition, and, at least in the legal profession, an admiration for their legal success and tenacity.
The third president, N.H. Knorr, ruled from the 1950s to the 1970s. He toned down their behavior and worked tirelessly to modify their public image from fanatics to quiet, determined Christians fearlessly going about their work preaching the good news of the Watchtower's kingdom. Pushing numerical growth to the exclusion of almost everything else including the health of individual Witnesses, his policies paid off. Except for the 1975 fiasco, growth has usually been steady. 1975 was their third recent major prediction for Armageddon, the other two were 1914 and 1925 which caused upward of one million people to eventually leave the sect.[3] They have carefully cultivated a public image of a God fearing devoted people, determined to ferret out God's truth from the scriptures and live their lives fully according to them. Behind this facade lies a nightmare which resulted in a rash of mental illness and social problems considerably higher than that found in virtually every American religion. The reasons for the Watchtower tragedy are complex and can only briefly be explored in this short review.
by antibiotic on November 27th, 2011
The full article is here:
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/mental.html
The Rylander study is obscure and questionable in methodology. Using prison inmates as a sample group for example. The small sample group is suspect as well.
Pescor studied inmates and had a small sample group.
The Janner Study was inmates and had a small sample group.
Quoting the article.
Witnesses commonly react to the research on their mental health by refusing to acknowledge its validity.
They have good reason to question the validity of these studies, as outlined above. This is not science. This is religious propaganda.
A scientific source I would respect would be a survey from NAMI or a Gallup Poll. And they appear to be silent on this matter.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 27th, 2011
ErgoStep, since you have an interest in this subject, please follow us on these lessons and feel free to join in anytime.
Lesson #3
Findings suggest that being a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses faith may be a risk factor predisposing to a schizophrenic illness.
From the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health
by antibiotic on November 27th, 2011
Quote from antibiotic earlier: "..The only point I see us being derailed to, is an issue of money.."
Aren't you the one that pointed out that collecting rent, paying your rent on time and that making payments on you car insurance should supersede ones relationship with God.
ErgoStep, I appreciate you being able to discern bias when you see it.
Quote from antibiotic: "..Soon Jehovah's Witnesses became infamous throughout the world for their legal clashes which often involved violence.."
That's almost funny. Unfortunately, the violence implied as being perpetrated by the JW's is actually real violence perpetrated against the Witnesses. I am pretty sure that with your skewed view on what a Christian is that you will likely not be able to discern who followed Christ in these videos:
Bulgaria:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy9lQjwwbEM
Georgia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB4ALpOn6Dg
by Texasescimo on November 27th, 2011
Quote: Quote from antibiotic: "..Soon Jehovah's Witnesses became infamous throughout the world for their legal clashes which often involved violence.."
Show evidence that I quoted this or agree that it's another tactic to throw me off track.
Quote: That's almost funny.
Actually, it's not funny at all, I'm not laughing out loud (LOL), and it's not cute, as you are quoted as saying.
Don't play victim here. The victims are the innocent people minding their own business in the privacy of their own home, being irritated, annoyed, and disturbed by your "knock knock trespassing".
Stay on track, Tex. We're on lesson #3.
by antibiotic on November 27th, 2011
The NIH is a more credible source, and I thank you for that.
The full document seems to be here:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw72.html
My analysis of the study. 7,546 people were admitted to the Mental Health Services of West Australia. Of these, 50 were JWs. The study is based on fifty people. In an area of 2,000,000 people. Such a small segment of the population is likely not the focus of Mental Health efforts.
Why are we worried. Why are we even thinking about this.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 27th, 2011
Soon Jehovah's Witnesses became infamous throughout the world for their legal clashes which often involved violence.[2]
Footnote #2. Jerry Bergman. "Jehovahs' Witnesses Experience in the Nazi Concentration Camps." Church and State. Winter 1996, 401-427.
I might add. In the previous article you cited (by Jerry Bergman), the footnote does not appear to match the conclusion of the article.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 27th, 2011
JW's have just been trying to appeal to the proper channels for their God given right which is also the same right given in the Constitution of many Countries only withheld from JW's usually do to the meddling of the Clergy. Obviously the popular religious leaders in the first century felt as yours do.
(Philippians 1:7) It is altogether right for me to think this regarding all of YOU, on account of my having YOU in my heart, all of YOU being sharers with me in the undeserved kindness, both in my [prison] bonds and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news.
(Acts 25)
(Acts 5:28-29) and said: “We positively ordered YOU not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name, and yet, look! YOU have filled Jerusalem with YOUR teaching, and YOU are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.
(Acts 5:42) And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
Antibiotic, my quote was from your comment 5 hours ago, in the middle of the paragraph two paragraphs below: [The History Of The Watchtower Reveals the Sources of Mental Problems.
Lesson #2]
Are you not reading the copy and paste that you are making? Are you just assuming that as long as it is an article that puts a slant on JW's that it must be true? Don't fall for Joseph Goebbels type propaganda that your German brothers did in the 1930's and 1940's.
ErgoStep does not seem to be reading with clouded glasses as you would prefer.
by Texasescimo on November 27th, 2011
Tex,
Here you go again with your slandering tactics. You keep digging with false accusations, hoping that at some point, your spewing lies, attacks, and berating Catholicism, will shatter my faith. By using deception, exaggeration, mockery, and attacks, only strengthens my view of Jehovah Witnessdom. I'm not offering news from ages ago, I'm giving you truth from within a decade.
Proverbs 10:23
It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.
Proverbs 10:8
The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall .
Do not accuse another religion of hiding skeletons in their closet, when yours has as many to hide (if not more).
Tex, you're a fool, a sinner, a failure and a shame to your congregation.
by antibiotic on November 27th, 2011
Tex,
Quote: ... your German brothers did in the 1930's and 1940's.
In the later stages of World War 2, Pope Pius XII appealed to several Latin American governments to accept “emergency passports” that several thousand Jews had succeeded in obtaining. Due to the efforts of the Pope and the U.S. State Department, 13 Latin American countries decided to honor these documents, despite threats from the Germans to deport the passport holders.
The International Catholic-Jewish Historical Commission (ICJHC), a group comprised of three Jewish and three Catholic scholars, was appointed in 1999 by the Holy See's Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews. In October of 2000, the group of scholars finished their review of the Vatican's archives, and submitted their preliminary findings to the Comission's then-President, Cardinal Edward I Cassidy. Their report, entitled "The Vatican and the Holocaust," laid to rest several of the conventional defenses of Pope Pius XII.
It is now established that the Pope supervised a rescue network which saved 860,000 Jewish lives - more than all the international agencies put together. In a strategic move hundredths of thousands, of Jews were baptized by the Catholic church and were given passports to leave Germany and other Nazi occupied countries to immergrate mostly to Central America and South America. These Jews, after established in their new home, continued with their Jewish faith.
For you to come out and chastise issues between the Catholic church and the Holocaust, after these issues have been laid to rest by leaders and scholars from both sides proves that you are a true hypocrite of mankind and a shame to your sect.
by antibiotic on November 27th, 2011
Get real. Jews and other victims of the Holocaust know the truth of the Holocaust.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
Cries for Help
Throughout the Holocaust, Pius XII was consistently besieged with pleas for help on behalf of the Jews.
In the spring of 1940, the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, Isaac Herzog, asked the papal Secretary of State, Cardinal Luigi Maglione to intercede to keep Jews in Spain from being deported to Germany. He later made a similar request for Jews in Lithuania. The papacy did nothing.(5)
Within the Pope's own church, Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna told Pius XII about Jewish deportations in 1941. In 1942, the Slovakian charge d'affaires, a position under the supervision of the Pope, reported to Rome thatSlovakian Jews were being systematically deported and sent to death camps.(6)
The Politics Behind the Policy
Historians point out that any support the Pope did give the Jews came after 1942, once U.S. officials told him that the allies wanted total victory, and it became likely that they would get it. Furthering the notion that any intervention by Pius XII was based on practical advantage rather than moral inclination is the fact that in late 1942, Pius XII began to advise the German and Hungarian bishops that it would be to their ultimate political advantage to go on record as speaking out against the massacre of the Jews. (27)
Recent Developments
The International Catholic-Jewish Historical Commission (ICJHC), a group comprised of three Jewish and three Catholic scholars, was appointed in 1999 by the Holy See's Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews. In October of 2000, the group of scholars finished their review of the Vatican's archives, and submitted their preliminary findings to the Comission's then-President, Cardinal Edward I Cassidy. Their report, entitled "The Vatican and the Holocaust," laid to rest several of the conventional defenses of Pope Pius XII.
The often-espoused view that the Pontiff was unaware of the seriousness of the situation of European Jewry during the war was definitively found to be inaccurate. Numerous documents demonstrated that the Pope was well-informed about the full extent of the Nazi's anti-Semitic practices. A letter from Konrad von Preysing, Bishop of Berlin, that proved that the Pope was aware of the situation as early as January of 1941, particularly caught the attention of the commission. In that letter, Preysing confirms that "Your Holiness is certainly informed about the situation of the Jews in Germany and the neighboring countries. I wish to mention that I have been asked both from the Catholic and Protestant side if the Holy See could not do something on this subject...in favor of these unfortunates." The letter, which was a direct appeal to the Pope himself, without intermediaries, provoked no response. In 1942, an even more compelling eyewitness account of the mass-murder of Jews in Lwow was sent to the Pope by an archbishop; this, too, garnered no response.
…
The preliminary report released by the IJCHC also asked the Vatican for access to non-published archival documents to more fully investigate the Pope's role in the Holocaust. This request was refused by the Vatican, which allowed them access only to documents from before 1923. As a result, the Commission suspended its study in July 2001, without issuing a final report. Dr. Michael Marrus, one of the three Jewish panelists and a professor of history at the University of Toronto, expained that the commission "ran up against a brick wall.... It would have been really halpful to have had support from the Holy See on this issue."(29)
There appears to be a large amount of so called "Christian's" in Hitler's Nazi Germany's Leadership:
ht
by Texasescimo on November 28th, 2011
Lesson #4
It is clear that members of the Jehovah's Witnesses movement are over-represented in admissions to the Mental Health Services. Furthermore, it is clear that the incidence of schizophrenia amongst them is about three times as high as for the rest of the general population, while the figure for paranoid schizophrenia is nearly four times that of the general population."
Tex, no more distractions. Stay on track.
by antibiotic on November 28th, 2011
antibiotic: Ask TEX about all the pedophiles and wife beaters within the Watchtower Society, he will deny it of course and call me names for bringing it up, but it's all true.
It has been said that they are almost as bad, maybe even worse than the Catholic Church as far as hiding pedophiles within their ranks. They have been called a "pedophile paradise" because the victim is vilified and the perpetrator is never brought to justice unless it's from an outside source or when they leave the Organization. These victims are said to be liars and can not believed because they just have an axe to grind with their former church, some yes some just want the truth exposed to the light of day. There are way to many people coming forward for it to be a disgruntled few.
Wives that have bean beaten for years and years are told that the problem lies with them because they do not submit to their husbands authority over them and thus deserve what they get. If they would all just give their husbands more sex so they wouldn't be tempted, and submit n all things they will see that their scars are fully deserved.
A cursory search in the library or internet reveals thousands of news and personal horror stories about this shameful church. Kinda reminds me of the Church of Scientology.
All in the name of God I might add. So tragic. But there is a time coming when all this will be revealed and the criminals within will face justice. It can not come soon enough!
by Abbyguy on November 29th, 2011
Last time the tip of the iceburg that was compiled by your Silent Lambs slanderers was at a total of 69 since 1970 including relatives of JW’s like Michael Jackson. Has the tip gotten bigger? Is so much happening now that the news is finding multiple cases on their own without your Silent Lambs in the back ground?
So the supposed 60 victims do count the accusations against Michael Jackson. What year was Michael Jackson baptized? What is your evidence for Michael Jackson being a JW, the fact that there have been accusations against him and Silent Lambs says that he was a JW in good standing when the accusations were made? Are there any youtube videos of him knocking on doors? Have the paparazzi ever video taped him going door to door? Saying that Michael Jackson was a JW when the accusations were made would be like saying that you were a JW when you were making sock-puppets. It is my understanding that the Jackson's mother tried to bring them up as JW's but that most of them did not embrace it.
Quote: "The alleged abuses span 27 years, from 1970 to 1997." In the link that I watched your slanderous buddy said that there were 60 cases. Obviously, even one is too much. There are some religious leaders that that have almost that many victims indivisually. How can you say that JW's are the next huge scandal?
Add to the 60 supposed pending cases to the suppossed 9 cases settled out of court since 1974 that is 69 in about 30 or so years. Less than 3 per year, which like I said, even one is too many and some of them likely did happen as you yourself apparantly used to associate with JW's and look at all of your deceptive post now. That supposed tip of the ice berg pales in comparison to those that are reflected by those 3 insurance carriers that don't even cover all of the Protestant denominations:
"The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically
receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by
clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members."
http://www.goodwininsuranceagency.com/Assets/pdf/Report-on-Sex-Abuse.pdf
Abbyguy, do you have links for other denominations? You still have not posted a link to the Mennonite official policy. Anyone that looks at your profile can see that your agenda is not to protect the innocent, but to make JW's look bad.
by Texasescimo on November 29th, 2011
Other denominations - other than the Catholic Church - have not tried to cover up the incidents, like the JW's have, and certainly not the same volume of problems, in a vain effort to try and save face.
By blaming the victim and allowing the accused to go door to door even though they have even confessed their crimes should e a crime in and of itself.
Funny how you never admit there is a problem but do the old "deflection" thing in an attempt to point at other as if saying "look at them not us!"
Pathetic.
Numerous TV documentaries have been done on the subject, thousands of victims have come forward and you point fingers and deny the whole thing happened, you coward!
Why would you defend something like this? What are you hiding?
by Abbyguy on November 29th, 2011
Abbyguy,
I've been showing the light on Jehovah's Witness pedophiles to Tex on another thread. He and I were discussing a topic, then out of nowhere he hit me with the abuse in the Catholic church, simply trying to shatter my faith. He threw the first stone, possibly not aware of the serious pedophile issue within the Jehovah's Witness congregation and how the Watchtower handles the accusations. I was hoping never to open the can of worms on this issue with a JW, but they have as many problems if not more, especially with law suits. I've told Tex, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ". Another one to Tex is, "Don't gossip about people if you have secrets of your own".
Now Abbyguy, what do you think happens when you mix pedophilia with mental illness?
by antibiotic on November 29th, 2011
Quote from antibiotic:
[Abbyguy,
I've been showing the light on Jehovah's Witness pedophiles to Tex on another thread. He and I were discussing a topic, then out of nowhere he hit me with the abuse in the Catholic church, simply trying to shatter my faith. He threw the first stone, possibly not aware of the serious pedophile issue within the Jehovah's Witness congregation and how the Watchtower handles the accusations. I was hoping never to open the can of worms on this issue with a JW, but they have as many problems if not more, especially with law suits. I've told Tex, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ". Another one to Tex is, "Don't gossip about people if you have secrets of your own".
Now Abbyguy, what do you think happens when you mix pedophilia with mental illness?]
Most of your activity is in the JW section attacking JW's and then you play the victim card that you are just defending your faith as I supposedly threw the first stone? You and Abbyguy make a good pair.
All anyone has to do is look at either one of you two hateful individuals profiles and see that ya'll have an agenda and it has nothing to do with truth.
by Texasescimo on November 29th, 2011
Abbyguy,
You might find these web sights interesting. I'll let them speak for themselves
This episode is from Scotland
Sarah Poisson, reported the situation to three elders, they told her to "pray more about the situation" and "be a better wife."
Find some time to view tis video. The video is blury but the audio is clear enough.
From CNN
Search Silentlambs online and read about them on wikipedia.org.
by antibiotic on November 29th, 2011
There simply is no comparison between the dismal churchwide record of the Catholic Church, and the record of Jehovah's Witnesses. Any attempt to compare the two is likely nothing more than a desperate attempt to draw attention away from the long and dirty record of a church that, while claiming to be Christian has never truly held to Christian Bible standards on any key issues it has faced.
Even recently did you see this article below?
German Bishops caught in massive porn scandal - Why didn’t they listen to the faithful?
by John-Henry Westen
COLOGNE, October 31, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - After ten years of being internally warned by faithful Catholics, including in a 70-page dossier sent to all of Germany’s main bishops, the scandal of the German bishops’ ownership of a publishing company that sells a large volume of porn has hit the mainstream media.
Last week the mainstream media outed the fact that the German bishops are 100% owners of one of the most profitable book companies in Germany. The huge company, in addition to offering many religious and other ethical books and items, also peddles 2500 porn titles and additional books highly offensive to Christian principles.
A spokesman for the bishops promised immediate corrective action. However, the false pretense of ignorance about the situation has only served to add to the scandal, especially for faithful Catholics who were treated with silence and even disdain when they repeatedly attempted for years to bring the scandal to an end out of public view.
WELTBILD, is the second largest bookselling company in Germany. It is wholly owned by the German bishops and has a $1.7 billion annual turnover. Its 2,500 porn titles (with covers too sexually explicit to reproduce) include perverse sexual fantasy of every type. WELTBILD also sells books promoting Satanism, the occult, esoterism, and anti-Christian atheist propaganda.
More than that, the bishops are also 50% owners in another company - Ver-lagsgruppe Droemer Knaur - which actually produces the pornographic novels.
German Catholic author Gabriele Kuby, who has for years pointed out to bishops various shortcomings in the Catholic Church in her nation, said that the worst thing about the current public scandal is the hypocrisy. Each of the affected bishops received 70 pages of documentation in 2008 detailing the fact that the publishing company was selling the pornographic titles, Kuby told LifeSiteNews. She noted that most bishops ignored the communications, not even bothering to reply. The Archdiocese of Munich did reply, said Kuby, but she says their response was “arrogant and spiteful.”
In reaction to questioning from the mainstream press, church officials claimed it was a filtering problem which resulted in the oversight, adding that the matter will be dealt with.
Another faithful Catholic, Bernhard Mueller, the editor-in-chief of the Catholic magazine PUR, was himself involved in trying to have the bishops resolve the scandal internally. Now, PUR’s front page story covering the current state of affairs is titled “Bishops as porn producers.”
In his coverage of the now-public scandal, Mueller describes the 10-year-long attempt to convince the bishops to take action on the matter. He concludes: “But over the years, all internal efforts to bring the scandal have come to nothing.”
The reaction from the public, as can be seen in reader comments beneath the mainstream media reports, has been to ridicule the Catholic Church. Mueller summed up the public view succinctly with the phrase: “Preach chastity and sell pornography.”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-bishops-caught-in-massive-porn-scandal-why-didnt-they-listen-to-the
by nick batchelor on November 29th, 2011
Interesting links in that article. They say that they are not actually selling porn, just erotica. They can't marry, they might ought to avoid erotica or they might stir up emotions that they can't deal with in a normal fashion.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-bishops-company-its-not-porn-just-erotica-so-were-suing-the-slandere
by Texasescimo on November 29th, 2011
"However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. The reason for this is that every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified through God’s word and prayer over [it]." (1 Tim. 4:1-3)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting_and_abstinence_in_the_Roman_Catholic_Church
Well this is somewhat awkward...
by HShawaybei on November 30th, 2011
Porn is a sex toy. A significant number of men use it, sometimes even in the context of marriage.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 30th, 2011
Not all men claim to follow the scriptures or the policies of a religion. Those that do follow the scriptures do not judge those that don't. (1 Corinthians 5:9-13)
by Texasescimo on November 30th, 2011
As a practical matter, solo sex happens, and is rarely condemned by religion.
Often this involves erotica. Mental health professionals recommend an absence of guilt. Religious teachers usually call it sin.
Sex between two people outside of marriage commonly happens. Very commonly. This is not a long term plan, due to the instability inherent to the situation. Marriage is stable, dating is culturally how one arrives at marriage.
As for the theology. Jews are required to follow the scriptures, and gentiles are not. A person can be in right relationship with God and have an untidy lifestyle.
With the freedom to chose, comes a responsibility to chose wisely, or accept the consequences that naturally follow. One should examine these before making significant lifestyle decisions.
Loss of friendship, due to swindling, is indeed one possible consequence. Cause people pain and they will leave you alone.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 30th, 2011
Tex and Nick: Your missing the point.
What happened and in some cases is still happening in the Catholic Church is deplorable and should be condemned by everyone and the criminals should face charges, no one is disputing that, except you guys, but so should all those within the WTS.
It is FACT that there have been huge cover ups and that the governing body failed to protect the children and wives from criminal acts. It won't disappear just because you deny it. It's not enough to point a finger and say "don't look at us look at them" because that does nothing to solve the problem. By continuing to deny there is a problem thousands more people will be subjected to unnecessary violence. It's not good enough to say Jehovah will take care of it, what about personal accountability? If you know something is happening and you turn a blind eye are you not guilty of aiding and abetting the criminal? What about helping those who need help?
Do you really think that there is no problem and that it could not be happening?
When you are held accountable in the end do you want to stand before God and say I was only following instruction from the organization? Or do you want to do the right thing and help these PEOPLE, not numbers, not facts, but people, with real feelings and real pain.
Matthew 25:40
"Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."
by Abbyguy on November 30th, 2011
In some of your other threads with slander of JW's you have said things to the affect that JW's have to do everything that the Watchtower writes or they will be disfellowshipped. Now you claim that we don't follow written JW policy.
Our Families
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child Protection:
http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article23.htm
[Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the Bible principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there were the articles “Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!” published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower; “Help for the Victims of Incest,” in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower; “Your Child Is in Danger!” “How Can We Protect Our Children?” and “Prevention in the Home”, all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as “Child Molesting—Every Mother’s Nightmare,” in the January 22, 1985, Awake!
When any one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other’s presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, “No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.” (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.
However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, the elders receive proper legal direction to ensure that they comply with the law. Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.
If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant—is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future—what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: “For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah’s Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service.” He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.
Cont..
by Texasescimo on November 30th, 2011
Continued from above....
In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago an 18-year-old male had sexual relations with a 15-year-old girl who was a willing participant. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. He has been living an exemplary life and he is respected. In such a case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.
Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer. Further, we regularly review our procedures to ensure that they are in compliance with the law.—Romans 13:1.
The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and “turn to God by doing works that befit repentance,” and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.]
As Nick has pointed out a few times: [The key is "Bible-based policy." As Christians, we have to protect both the alleged victim and the person who is merely accused but not proven guilty. An alleged pedophile is not necessarily so, and justice requires that neither party be victimized.
How many incidents in your Church have you reported to the police and how many have you made public?
by Texasescimo on November 30th, 2011
How many people in my church are pedophiles, who knows. I do know that if and when they are discovered they will be dealt with by the police and no cover up will happen as it has IN FACT happened in your so-called church.
Let it be on your head then. Stick your head in the sand while others are being damaged for life. Because your are playing the victim card you are avoiding the reality of the situation, a situation that will eventually be brought into the light of day.
I could not give a crap what you think of me, so pointing fingers is not going to work now nor ever, and it certainly won't change the reality of the situation.
I'm sure you're a good man at heart, but you are blinded in your defense of your "organization."
"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke
Do something!
by Abbyguy on November 30th, 2011
Tell me who in my Congregation is a victim or perpetrator so I can try to verify it so I can do something. I am not going to go make baseless accusations of what I know nothing about just to help you spread your lies and hate. Otherwise, right back at you with your claim. You do something.
by Texasescimo on November 30th, 2011
Is coverup's the reason that you used to be evasive about what religion you are? Several times I asked you and usually you would disappear for a few months. Then finally on March 4, 2010, you said "a non-denominatioal Protestant Christian" then in June of 2010, you started saying you were Mennonite since 2001
Ashamed to admit Mennonite and claims nondenominational later claims Mennonite
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/418456
“….
Tex: 1)I would categorize myself as a non-denominatioal Protestant Christian.
…..” by AB Guy on March 4th, 2010
(1 Peter 2:21-22) In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely. 22 He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/8887899#postcomment8887899
NOS: For the record I belong to a Mennonite Brethern church although I am not a Mennonite by birth, the church I attend is affiliated with them. I am a born again Christain and I love Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. What else would you like to know? by AB Guy on June 15th, 2010
Perryman, ……
And yes I joined the Mennonite church back in 2001 when I became born-again, it is one of the most loving bible teaching churches anywhere. …..
by AB Guy on June 29th, 2010
Do to your habit of making contradicting claims and the fact that I don't think that most Mennonites are pedophiles or as dishonest as you and do to the fact that I am not 100% convinced that you are even a Mennonite, I am only going to post a couple of links:
Are all of these coverups true? Why didn't you do anything?
http://mennonitecoverup.ca/?p=268
http://mennonitecoverup.ca/?cat=10
When asked, why wouldn't you tell us what is the official policy on accusations of sexual abuse in your Church? I found it so that we can all change our policies to your wonderful policy if it is better and works.
http://mennonitecoverup.ca/?p=133
[..The authors acknowledge the obvious fact that:
contrary to the directives “throughout the scriptures, (where) God calls on people to expose, confront, and abolish evil,”
“if anything, the (Mennonite Brethren) church has (instead) contributed to a conspiracy of silence.”
The Mennonite Brethren community has “preferred to avoid the topic and act as though, ‘It isn’t happening here’.”..]
If you are indeed Mennonite, you seem to have your head in the sand as your leaders know whats been happening.
You claim that you were raised as a JW. If that is true, how long did you associate with them?
Did you and your parents cover up sexual abuse back then?
by Texasescimo on November 30th, 2011
Tex, say what they will, the Catholic church had (and still has) a more serious problem with pedophiles than Jehovah's Witnesses have ever had. Their practice of enforced priestly celibacy only exaggerated the problem.
Either way, it's nothing to brag about. Pedophilia is likely to be a problem anywhere that people do not take God's moral laws seriously, regardless of the religion they profess be it Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, etc...
by nick batchelor on November 30th, 2011
The confessional is a very intimate setting, talking about intimate things.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 30th, 2011
Confessional?? Lol
One of the things that opposers often complain about is JW's disfellowshipping unrepentant fornicators and such. If it was not expected that some would fall away, there would be no need for the Bible to tell how to handle such matters within the Congregation.
(1 Corinthians 5:9-13) In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
Problem with many Church's is they don't apply that counsel to fornicators and such, but only to Scientist like Galileo for understanding the Bible in relation to figurative language such as the sun rising and Doctor's like Michael Servetus for understanding that the Bible doesn't really teach a Trinity. Then there are many that have been excommunicated for translating the Bible, the thing is that none of those things are reasons to excommunicate and rather than just removing them from the Congregation, they felt the need to go a step further and strangle or burn some of them at the stake.
(1 Corinthians 4:6) [...YOU may learn the [rule]: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” ...]
by Texasescimo on November 30th, 2011
90% of teens are fornicators. The church would be empty.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on November 30th, 2011
Tex: I have explained before but you must have forgotten it so it will re-iterate for your edification.
The church I attend is a community church with it's roots in the Mennonite Brethren teachings so they are, I suppose, hand in hand.
I suppose the term I used before - non-denominational - was incorrect, so shoot me.
What matter is that they teach and adhere to biblical teachings and standards far beyond anything you comprehend because the Holy Spirit is not in you.
As you and your brothers and sisters strive to please - which is impossible by the way - God so that you can inherit Gods kingdom you are missing salvation through grace that is being offered to all of you.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
So I guess you will never see it huh?
by Abbyguy on December 1st, 2011
Paul was aware of the Torah and the Rabbinical Law. If he was intending to outline matters of law, he would have mentioned adultery and incest.
Fornication ...is a much lighter offense than Adultery or Incest, in which both participants are punished with death.
Finally, note that historical people married earlier than we do today, perhaps around the age of 18. This would make Adultery a far more likely occurrence. Note that Paul does not discuss Adultery.
Among the three cardinal sins for which the penalty was death, idolatry stood first. Compare with Paul's comments on idolatry.
It is my belief that 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 is speaking of idolatry. "Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord" where Porneia includes the worship of idols.
"Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute?" Where Porne could refer to idolatry. Perhaps a member of a sect that is worshiping what Jews think of as a demon.
"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you" is clearly contrasting the contextual text with having the Holy Spirit indwelling. The logical alternative to the Holy Spirit indwelling is a demon indwelling.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 1st, 2011
Abbyguy: I (and I assume Tex) belong to the large group spoken of in the bible, we will not be part of the heavenly kingdom. The small group of born-again adopted sons of God are the ones who will rule over us. Salvation and being born-again (or born from spirit) are not interchangeable terms. Come back over to our discussion http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/10460029 and I can go into much much more depth with scriptures to back me up.
by HShawaybei on December 1st, 2011
Jesus said, "...I always do the things pleasing to him." (John 8:29) I guess we are in good company for striving to please God. And God expects us to listen to His Son our King and Judge Jesus Christ and OBEY him. (Hebrews 5:8)
by nick batchelor on December 1st, 2011
The verse from John was specifically referring to the upcoming crucifixion. It is not related to idolatry in any way.
Hebrews is a reflection of Hebrew beliefs and traditions. Hebrews and James were both so out of line with Christian beliefs that they almost didn't get included in the Cannon of Scripture.
Note that the Jews were considered married to God, required to worship him only, and follow his law. Idolatry in the Old Testament was likened to adultery.
If you call Jesus a judge, on what basis does he judge us. If according to his law, we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. If he judges us by grace, then he is no longer a judge. He is a brother.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 1st, 2011
This threads getting a little confusing. I am pretty sure that Nick's reference to John 8:29 "...I always do the things pleasing to him" was in relation to Abbyguy's comment "you and your brothers and sisters strive to please" rather than to adultery. Abbyguy accepts most traditional teachings as Gospel. Generally, traditional ones like to quote Ephesians 2:8-9 (without verse 10 as it mentions works) and make a doctrine out of that without considering the other verses on the same subject in line with 2 Tim 3:16.
Compare the different answers to the following question and their popularity:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2509870
by Texasescimo on December 2nd, 2011
Tex was correct. Perhaps I should of specified who I was addressing.
by nick batchelor on December 2nd, 2011
Clarifying.
John 8:21-30 is an intense conversation about the upcoming crucifixion. "the things pleasing to him" is more accurately translated "the thing that is pleasing to him," specifically, his upcoming death.
Taking a verse out of context is dangerous in developing one's theological views.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 2nd, 2011
I was thinking the link was going to be to a lesson in Greek grammar showing that it had to be translated as "the thing that is pleasing to him".
Either way, you missed the point. Did you not see the bold on "do"?
Are you saying that it should be translated as "I always do the thing that is pleasing to him"? If so, why didn't he specify that one thing and what is that one thing that he always does?
If he only did something pleasing to God that one time and is only referring to doing something pleasing that one time in that one situation why did he use "always"?
If you are saying that the one thing that he does that is pleasing to him was his upcoming death, why did he say I "always" do?
You're kinda losing me here lately.
by Texasescimo on December 2nd, 2011
The point of the conversation is the crucifixion.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 2nd, 2011
Did not Jesus always do what was pleasing to his God and Father? Did he seek to do God's will only concerning his execution?
by nick batchelor on December 2nd, 2011
Remember the question some how it got lost in the shuffle. Any how if you dont agree with Tex its slander and if he can not answer the question He will change the subject.Heres a good web site for you tex.
http://www.letusreason.org/jw38.htm
by Doc on December 5th, 2011
Doc, I don't think that everyone that disagree's with me slanders. I actually answered East Hill's question before this thread ever started. If you look past your foggy and deceptive agenda, you may see that I am not the one that changed the subject but rather followed the course of the thread as it developed.
PS, I don't consider your assumption that I can't answer the question as slander, that is just a misunderstanding on your part as you were not privy to the other conversation. On the other hand, many of your hybrid questions/accusations loaded with 1/2 truths about JW's and answers are slanderous.
by Texasescimo on December 5th, 2011
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2470357?sort=greatness
Asked by Doc on April 6th, 2011
"What is the central belief of Christianity or what actually makes a professing Christian a Christian? Any Bible verses to offer?"
In the above link, I answered the part about what makes a professing Christian a Christian with a scriptural answer and you gave Asker’s Pick to an answer that gave no scriptures. You obviously are not interested in answers or comments staying on topic.
“You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you.” (John 15:14)
You teach a class at your Church on JW's yet if what you post on AB is similar to what you teach in your Church, the truth is not in you.
A few exampled of your hybrid questions:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2593768
by Doc on October 13th, 2011
Do Jehovah Witnesses believe we are still under the law or under grace? Why!
Most of their referrences come from OT. using only one verse.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2478865
by Doc on April 19th, 2011
The best Bibically documented doctrine of the Christian faith is the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why do J/Ws teach Jesus is dead?
Is this more or less because they believe the soul dies with the body?
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2478068
by Doc on April 18th, 2011
If the Jesus of the Bible is the Jehovah Witnesses Jesus. Who in Heaven is impersonating the Jesus of the Bible.Since the J/Ws Jesus is dead
by Texasescimo on December 5th, 2011
I would like to get a scriptural answer from some popular mainstream Christians to this question:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2627038?sort=date
I've asked some in threads before but outside a few Atheist and JW's, I haven't gotten any response with scriptures.
Personal invite to Doc, Abbyguy, antibiotic, and of course, other's are welcome as well.
by Texasescimo on December 6th, 2011
Personally I think if the word "Jerusalem" was replaced with "Montana" in the bible it would stop a lot of bloodshed.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 6th, 2011
Depends, in the big one, was Montana fer us er gainst us?
I would think that the ones that spend so much time on the internet trying to show JW's how wrong they are about everything could answer the simple question in the link in my previous comment. Pretty sure I know why they want answer it though.
by Texasescimo on December 7th, 2011
Abbyguy, I flagged your venom as nonsense as it did not answer the question and had nothing to do with the answer that you commented under. A simple "I don't know the answer because my Church does not understand that part of the Bible" or "I don't really believe the Bible" would have been sufficient.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2627038?sort=date
You have a habit of avoiding the point as well as questions. Are you nondenominational now or are you Mennonite?
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/11531565
by Texasescimo on December 7th, 2011
The question of Babylonian Exile is obscure. There are no references given in the question. Formulating a response is difficult when the subject is unknown.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 7th, 2011
I answered your question, http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2627038?sort=date and you'll see you're wrong pal!
Referring to the question you raised in the aforementioned thread above regarding the 70 years etc. It all boils down to can you prove Jesus came in 1914 and that was the impetus of your question so let me ask you this:
You folks like to say that Christians other than JW's follow pagan rituals and have pagan roots in said theology, right? Right!
Well what about C.T. Russell he used pagan origins, the Great Pyramid to start any of his calculations for the 1914 return of Christ in his theology and why do you still use it?
You are fond of saying you have distanced yourselves from him and his teachings, how is that any different than what Christians do with Christian beliefs?
Watchtower article, May 15,1925 page 148
"When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the human sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation."
Watchtower article, May 1,1903 page 131
"The Great pyramid of Egypt, standing as a silent and inanimate witness of the Lord, is a messenger; and it's testimony speaks with loud eloquence concerning the divine plan."
Are you nondenominational now or are you Mennonite?" Are you nondenominational now or are you Mennonite? What difference does it make?
I believe in the way the truth and the life...Jesus!
He is not a religion, denomination, organization, system of belief, or any other title you wish to give it. It's ALL about following Him! He said Come to ME, follow ME, I am life, I will give you rest, I AM...
If He were just a man do you think he would say such things? Would/could Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Elijah say such things??? NO!
Only God the Son could and did.
by Abbyguy on December 8th, 2011
Quote: [...Are you nondenominational now or are you Mennonite?" Are you nondenominational now or are you Mennonite? What difference does it make?
I believe in the way the truth and the life...Jesus!
He is not a religion, denomination, organization, system of belief, or any other title you wish to give it. It's ALL about following Him! He said Come to ME, follow ME, I am life, I will give you rest, I AM...
If He were just a man do you think he would say such things? Would/could Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Elijah say such things??? NO!
Only God the Son could and did.]
It don't make me any difference. I believe that anyone that thinks that God is a trinity that burns immortal souls in a literal Hell Fire for eternity is misled. I don't think that most that believe in such things are liars or bad people, just misled. Your habit of misconstruing things and going back a hundred years to find a straw in someones eye is a little annoying, especially when you defend worse things such as "Christians" killing "Christians" with comments something like "we all sin and no one is perfect".
"God the Son", did you mean "Son of God"?
Is that kinda like your "hoti ego eimi" = God thingy?
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/11531565
by Texasescimo on December 10th, 2011
If one decides that "son of God" means something different than "Jesus is God" then 80% of the proofs for Jesus' divinity disappear.
Aren't you a "son of God" as well.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 10th, 2011
You mean "God the Son"?
by Texasescimo on December 10th, 2011
I wonder if the order of the words was as important in the original language.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 10th, 2011
Must be, otherwise most translations would like translated it as "God the Son", based on the way they apply eisegesis whenever possible to make it look like Jesus is God and God takes a back seat to Jesus.
(John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
(John 20:31) But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.
(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.
by Texasescimo on December 11th, 2011
I suspect a trick. "Son of God" occurs over forty times in the bible, while "God the son" does not occur once.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 11th, 2011
Yes Tex we are all sinners and make mistakes but this has NOTHING to do with my question: "Well what about C.T. Russell he used pagan origins, the Great Pyramid to start any of his calculations for the 1914 return of Christ in his theology and why do you still use it?"
You see I take issue with your whole calculation thing because it was first done by using Pyramidology to establish the dates. Then the Governing Body said that they, (CT Russell at that time) the faithful and discreet servant were chosen do do Jehovah's work after the date Jesus was supposed to have come, right? Right!
Why would Jehovah use a Pagan to be his "faithful and discreet servant?"
by Abbyguy on December 11th, 2011
"God the Son" might not be in the Bible, but it's all over the internet by those that prefer tradition.
Abbyguy, I don't worship any man. Your constant grasping for straws in trying to prove how evil JW's are gets a little old.
Does your Church teach about Santa and the Easter Bunny? I am not talking about what someone else might have thought 100 years ago, but what your Church teaches now. I wonder what rabbits are known for and what an egg could be a symbol? How cute that so many teach that has something to do with Jesus.
Quote from earlier: "I answered your question, http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2627038?sort=date and you'll see you're wrong pal!"
Did you come up with that all by yourself or did you just blindly accept what others have said?
by Texasescimo on December 11th, 2011
Stating the obvious, rabbits are known for fertility, as symbolized by the eggs.
I gather that some ideas of CT Russell have been discredited.
by ErgoStep - Millionaire Websites on December 11th, 2011
Ergostep: yes he was the founder of the JW's and used all sorts of Pagnism to develop his prophecies and doctrine. The main problem is that by doing this it goes against much of what they say they follow.
They believe Christ has already returned, invisibly, in 1914 but only they know this.
This is what CT Russel came up with while studying Great Pyramid of Egypt - you can find a copy of his book online "They Kingdom Come" where he outlines everything - this doctrine is fundamental and at the very foundation of their beliefs so if it's wrong it all falls apart. So they have gone to great length to dis-credit the man and say they have new light, or information from God on this subject, claiming again that only they get this info because only they are Gods true "organization" or religion, on earth today.
Now they say they get this information from their governing body in New York who believe themselves to be the "faithful and discreet slave" as described in Matt 24:45 in the bible.
They say that they were appointed to this position after CT Russell held the original position shortly after the year 1914 when it was all instituted.
The problem is that this "servant" has to be holy, blameless and found doing Gods work when the Lord Jesus returns, or in this case returned in 1914.
But how can this be? CT Russell was busy with Paganism and writing books proving it at the time he would have been appointed.
Do YOU think that according to what God wants that He would appoint a Pagan? After all the bible tells us that God detests or hates anyone like them practicing these types of things.
So now you can see why they distance themselves from him so vociferously and why Tex just side steps the whole issue and keeps drinking the Kool-Aid they give him.
But the JW's claim to follow the bible to the letter of the law, but in this case, and hundreds of others I might add, they do NOT.
Ether admit they are wrong and watch the house of cards fall and millions of people shattered by disbelief, or, keep up the sham and make millions of $ and hold control over millions of people.
Hmmm??? I wonder what will happen?
by Abbyguy on December 11th, 2011
The scriptures are the reason we believe what we do about 1914:
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_10.htm
I've read that Russell celebrated pagan holidays and Christmas like Abbyguy does and he had similar thoughts to the cross as most Abbyguy does.
Abbyguy, is that why you celebrate pagan holidays? Are you trying to follow Russell or do you just like celebrating pagan holidays do to your tradition?
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
What scriptures? What a load of crap!
I don't claim to be inspired of God as you folks do. What I do is between myself and Jesus.
What you do is between you and the governing body,your false prophet.
BIG DIFFERENCE!
by Abbyguy on December 12th, 2011
Please control your language. Where have Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed to be "inspired of God" as was the Bible writers?
by nick batchelor on December 12th, 2011
"What scriptures?"
Obviously the ones in the link above:
(Luke 21:24; Psalm 48:1-2; 1 Chronicles 29:23; 2 Kings 25:1-26; Ezekiel 21:26-27; Luke 1:32-33; Daniel 4:1-37; Daniel 4:10-16; Ezekiel 17:22-24; Ezekiel 31:2-5; Revelation 12:6; Revelation 12:14; Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6; Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13-14; Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11; 2 Timothy 3:1-5)
It's a shame that ones like yourself think that you are serving God while at the same time consenting to the killing of any that disagree with you as well as killing those of your own faith if they happen to be on the wrong side of the border or the wrong side of your political agenda.
Are you misquoting articles again or just out right making stuff up?
"..I don't claim to be inspired of God as you folks do..."
Where have I ever claimed to be inspired of God?
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
"Please control your language." LOLOLOL That's an even bigger load of CRAP! Crap crap crap! Boy you are a self righteous legalistic fool.
Get off your high horse, you Pharisee.
by Abbyguy on December 12th, 2011
Abbyguy, you have said numerous times that you are "Born Again". How often did the ones in the Bible that were born again say things like you do and treat people the way that you do?
If this is the way you act after being born again, I would have hated to see the way you were before.
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
Okay, I'm done here.
by nick batchelor on December 12th, 2011
Good, it's about time. See ya. Ya'll come back now ya hear! Can you say self righteous?
No wonder you never see the likes of you down on skid row or helping the homeless. Wouldn't want to dirty your suits or tarnish your pious image.
Ya just keep racking up those hours visiting those same people and making the WTS happy.
After all it's works that save us right?
by Abbyguy on December 13th, 2011
I will not let you browbeat again. Why not apply what you are supposed to according to 1 Peter 3:15?
"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," (1 Peter 3:15; NIV)
by nick batchelor on December 13th, 2011
Abbyguy, if I reply to your question, are you going to accuse me of changing the subject again?
I wonder how long we can actually discuss the Bible without Abbyguy resorting to adhom's? It would be nice if we could discuss current beliefs and rather or not they line up with scriptures. Some accept all the scriptures (2 Tim 3:16) while others seem to pick a couple of scriptures that can be understood in a couple of ways without considering the context.
Which is Right?
The Bible says: "A man is declared righteous by faith apart from works of law." It also says: "A man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone." Which is right? Are we declared righteous by faith or by works?—Romans 3:28; James 2:24. (The article in the following link helps clarify the harmonious answer)
http://www.watchtower.org/e/19960201/article_02.htm
I find it interesting that so many preachers preach for money and do not consider that "works", but when others preach for free, they tell their flocks that those are trying to "work" their way into heaven and quote Ephesians 2:8-9. Some Churches even have classes telling them that.
James 2:14-26: 14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, 16 yet a certain one of YOU says to them: “Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,” but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it? 17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself. 18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.” 19You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,” and he came to be called “Jehovah’s friend.”
24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. 25 In the same manner was not also Ra′hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Do we have to do more than just hear?
(James 1:22-25) However, become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. 25 But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in [it], this [man], because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing [it].
Continued...
by Texasescimo on December 13th, 2011
Do we have to do more than just believe?
(James 2:18-22) Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,
Do we have to obey and do what Jesus said?
(Luke 6:46-49) “Why, then, do YOU call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say? 47 Everyone that comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show YOU whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid a foundation upon the rock-mass. Consequently, when a flood arose, the river dashed against that house, but was not strong enough to shake it, because of its being well built. 49 On the other hand, he who hears and does not do, is like a man who built a house upon the ground without a foundation. Against it the river dashed, and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house became great.”
(Hebrews 5:9) And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
(John 8:31) And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples,
(Ephesians 2:8-10) By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift. 9 No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting. 10 For we are a product of his work and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance for us to walk in them.
(1 John 2:17) Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.
(Titus 2:14) who gave himself for us that he might deliver us from every sort of lawlessness and cleanse for himself a people peculiarly his own, zealous for fine works.
Paul was referring to "works of law" as it looks to me like we are still supposed to do what Jesus said.
(Ephesians 2:8-10) By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift. 9 No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting. 10 For we are a product of his work and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance for us to walk in them.
(Romans 3:28) For we reckon that a man is declared righteous by faith apart from works of law.
(Galatians 2:16) knowing as we do that a man is declared righteous, not due to works of law, but only through faith toward Christ Jesus, even we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be declared righteous due to faith toward Christ, and not due to works of law, because due to works of law no flesh will be declared righteous.
(Acts 13:39) and that from all the things from which YOU could not be declared guiltless by means of the law of Moses, everyone who believes is declared guiltless by means of this One.
(James 2:24) YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone.
Paul did not contradict James.
Paul's point as seen in Galatians 3 is that Christians are not under works of law. In Hebrews 11, he showed that faith includes actions. (Romans 10 as well) Paul and James are in agreement.
by Texasescimo on December 13th, 2011
Antibiotic, please, no more private messages.
You think that pedophilia is as rampant among JW elders as it is among Catholic Priest? BUNK! In their trumped up numbers, silent lambs counts Michael Jackson as well as others that never were JW's much less an Elder. With Catholic Priest, the authentic news reports only count Priest as Priest. Now if you take every baptized Catholic that has ever raped or molested anyone and add those numbers as Priest as well, where do you think that will put the number?
As far as the Catholic Church apologizing for doing too little to stop the Holocaust, how about apologizing for their participation in it?
I suppose that you think that JW's should apologize for denouncing Hitler's atrocities even before WWII started which is one of the reasons that JW's were thrown into concentration camps before and during the war.
Any JW Elder that is known to have molested anyone is removed. Any JW, Elder or not that even has sex outside of marriage is disciplined. If they continue they are disfellowshipped. That is one of the reasons that ones as yourself call us a cult. If anyone knows of molesting, they should go to the police and to the Elder's. There are all kinds of accusations made against JW's such as your links about JW's being mentally ill. Is every claim true, likely not, but the victim knows and has the right to go to the police and to the Elder's.
Just because you find sites that claim a JW is an Elder does not prove that the person is a JW. As a matter of fact, just because that some of those sites claim that a person suspected of molesting is a JW, does not mean that the person is really a JW, Michael Jackson for example.
Our official policy is posted up above. If we go against that you would not label us a cult but more like yourself.
by Texasescimo on December 21st, 2011