Reading the “NO” side of this argument was really great, I learned quite a bit about abortion. Let me tell you in my paragraph by paragraph analysis:
1. Five months after fertilization, unborn children feel pain. It’s too bad that most abortion clinics don’t perform abortions after this time because then we could be murdering something that could feel instead of a boring old painless death.
2. Those Prolife people are so kind and morally upright. The Family Research Council says that because they’re so generous, they treat all human beings equally; they think it’s unethical to have the Powerful decide whether or not the Defenseless live. It really doesn’t make sense to have laws that allow women to decide if they want to have a child because that means that they would be in a powerful position, which is understandably dangerous to all of the Defenseless out there. Instead, all power should be handed over to people who detest power; only then can they decide that the defenseless should live. They must be really strong if they can tolerate doing the one thing they hate: controlling the fate of another.
3. Three-hundred and thirty-six women have died of legal abortion from 1973 to 2003. This means that for thirty years, there were about 11.2 deaths per year from legal abortion. It’s reassuring to see that such upstanding Americans would care about the deaths of 336 women out of around 304,060,000 people living in the United States who made a conscious and willing decision to murder the defenseless being inside of them. Like any cold-blooded murderer, they deserve a chance at life.
4. Women can suffer post-abortion syndrome, which is a subset of post-traumatic-stress disorder. It’s obviously more serious to suffer from this than post-partum depression; therefore, we should make women become depressed while having a child to take care of instead of suffering the depression all alone.
5. In 1973, the time of the Roe vs. Wade case, 15.5% of children were born out of wedlock and the numbers increased to 36% in 2004. There is also a high correlation between these out-of-wedlock births and unfortunate social conditions such as pervasive child poverty. This means that the Roe vs. Wade case single-handedly increased the illegitimacy rate among people who suffered from pervasive child poverty. Therefore, we can conclude that the Supreme Court declaring abortion to be legal in the eyes of the Constitution made people who engaged in pre-marital sex more willing to go through with their pregnancy rather than blasphemously murdering the defenseless.
6. It appears that the birthrate fell 17% from 1990 to 2002. The Alliance Defense Fund concludes that this caused population aging that will be detrimental to our economy’s well-being when old people retire. Thus, I am forced to conclude that Roe vs. Wade is the reason why young people are able to get jobs; clearly if not enough young people are being born, there should be a lot jobs available to them when senior employees retire. There is one flaw in my theory: I think that the economy’s current terrible condition is preventing young people from getting jobs. Damn, I guess abortion, or lack thereof, isn’t related to economic crises.
7. Abortion reduces people to what they can do rather than who they are. That statement alone has so many bases in fact; she even said “rationally” in the same paragraph! How could something like that be false? I’ve realized that all along, I’ve been hiding behind nebulous slogans like “pro-choice.” For those of you who don’t speak crazy, this means that I never specified what choice I was talking about, and neither have other “pro-choicers.” At the same time, fellow abortionists have freely testified in court the exact specifications of how they intended on brutally slaughtering human beings growing in the womb.
8. The womb is dangerous. Somehow, people profit from killing innocent babies who aren’t classified as sub-human. This profit may or may not be defined through economic significance. These anti sub-human, yet valuable, creatures must be saved from the evil womb because no person’s life is worthless. Basically, (what I gathered from this nonsensical paragraph) profit doesn’t mean value because profit is bad but value is good. The womb is dangerous because babies are killed in there, but we shouldn’t save them from the womb because it is also a shelter: a dangerous shelter. Fetuses aren’t sub-human because they live in this dangerous shelter and they are also people who are put on the value and profit scale when they shouldn’t be put on the profit scale because profit is bad, just like the womb.
9. (At this point, I’m already getting tired of this article, so…) Roe vs. Wade forced doctors to perform abortions that they didn’t want to do. Back alley abortions were very common before this case. Consequently, back alley abortionists were turned into doctors.
10. Ectopic pregnancy is often caused by having so many abortions. This is because of the scar tissue that develops when the wound heals. There is a lot of scar tissue because of these back alley abortionists turned doctors. Ectopic pregnancy is the only danger involved in childbirth, a natural and healthy process.
11. Women are pressured by their boyfriends, parents, and sexual abusers who want to hide the evidence (wtf?). Abortion is causing women to feel like they have no choice. In the olden days, a woman would be punched in the stomach by her abusive boyfriend if she didn’t want a baby. Nowadays these abusers would rather make their wives get an abortion. Therefore, abortion’s legalization has caused abusive boyfriends to be nicer to their girlfriends. Early feminists hated abortion, but current feminists are idiotic because they’re for it. This is because early feminists know that removing a fetus from the uterus directly would kill it, while being punched in the uterus wouldn’t guarantee death.
12. Abortionists are secretly entering a low pay job just because they want to profit off of women suffering. Even though they incessantly interrogate women about their decision to have an abortion, they are hiding facts, plain and simple. Those women are almost as evil as the womb.
13. The “pro-choicers” choose to hide the efforts of the “pro-life” movement to provide helpless women life-affirming choices and schooling. There are obviously a lot of laws blocking women from seeing their ultrasound when they get an abortion. Forget the fact that abortionists often ask a woman if she wants to see her ultrasound before she slaughters the baby in her dangerous womb. The obvious difference between an abortion center and a Pro-life center is that abortion centers ask you to pay to kill babies while Pro-life centers are completely free. Excuse me, typically free.
14. The abortion industry has succeeded in weeding out all of the poor and ethnically diverse members of the population. In fact, that’s why the clinics are in poor neighborhoods. According to this argument, poor, black people get a lot of abortions, so I suppose that the ultimate goal was met.
Comments
Obviously something somebody would say if they don't understand abortion. How typically pathetic.
by VanCityKid on February 2nd, 2010
VanCityKid, what makes you think itishere does not understand abortion? It sounds perfectly clear to me. Abortion is murder, it is the taking of a human life. Whether or not it is a thinking, breathing human, it is a life all the same.
by Sabrina on February 4th, 2010
A bunch of cells, a foetus, is not a child. And technically, considering that before a baby is actually baby, ie. born, it is not fully considered a person, it is not murder.
by Ocicat on February 5th, 2010
VanCityKid, you said "Whether or not it is a thinking, breathing human, it is a life all the same." Do you know what a human is called if it is not thinking, or breathing? They are called dead, so if you want to be technical, a fetus is no more than a abnormal growth in a womb.
by grim545 on February 6th, 2010
He is right...its messed up
by NoahDawg on February 6th, 2010
I'm sorry, but I do not believe you should have any input on this topic. When you are capable of constructing an intelligent sentence (with all the words spelled correctly) then maybe your opinion will be worth debating. I for one do not want an illiterate human being deciding anything for the people.
by strung_out_atom13 on February 7th, 2010
my mom had a kid when she was 18, he's my brother and we both beleive in reincarnation. She knew absolutely nothing about raising a child. and even though she had the best intentions she screwed him up bad and ruined her carreer and marriage because of it. I've talked to him about it and her and they both agree that everyone would have been alot better off if she had had an abortion. so I geuss my point is, by making abortion illegal you are forcing alot of families into situations they are NOT ready for. and yes, these mom's could put the kid up for adoption but you have no idea how hard that is to do in reality. when your pregnant your hormones, and body, and heart are all screaming at you to raise and love this child, but that does not mean you can. anyone who thinks abortion should be ilegal has clearly never kept a child that they were not cabable of caring for.
by lotteyH on February 7th, 2010
100% correct
by P4ganiZonda on February 8th, 2010
Well said lotteyH.
by grim545 on February 9th, 2010
Can you imagine if every time a woman becomes pregnant she has to deliver a child? It would be like Africa on a worldwide scale, *shudders* then we would all be in the gutter. TOO many people equals not enough food and resources, in fact, that would end up costing more lives in the first place.
We would be sacrificing the lives of people already here for the possible lives of the unborn. That HARDLY seems fair to me.
by HumourMe on February 28th, 2010
Shame on the people who gave this answer a thumbs up. If you dared to show your face in public and call pro-choice individuals selfish and lacking moral sense, you'd be beaten down to a soft and bloody pulp. Well that's what I'm hoping anyway...
by HumourMe on February 28th, 2010
You make a choice to have sex outside of marrage. It is not love, the reason you do this.It is lust! To fulfill your lusts you lie, use your money, impress other weak minded people with your charms or booze or drugs or whatever to get your lust fullfilled, to get what you want, with a promise of a good time, or whatever the desire the other person wants fullfilled! Some are really wanting love others maybe what you have in possessions? There is all kinds of sparkly things that draw us in. But when your lust is fullfilled, you throw away what you have made like a peice of garbage, the only one inicent in all of it! You call it a mistake!Well guess what, its not an it! It is a person! And you are murderers if you kill that baby! Just so you can go get off again! How much does it cost you in the end? When your lust is fulfilled, how many sins will you have heaped up? How many times are you willing to kill,cheat and lie to fulfill your desires? You think its a way out? You take no accountability for what you choose? Well you are all wrong! Someday you will be judged on every last thing you have done in your life! If you knew the realality of what you choose to allow, you would be on your face begging Gods forgivness! Make your excuses! Go ahead! Down me,and everyone else who still knows the differnce between good and evil! Bring it on! But remember every word you say will be remembered, and someone here already knows the shame of it all! Honey, Its not to late! You are hearing the knock! Open the door! Choose life! Jesus loves you! Its not even to late for any of you! You want choice...CHOOSE LIFE! Let him who have ears hear.....................................
by itisihere on March 19th, 2010
you people think the world is black and white don't you? well guess what, its not. There are gray areas all over, I wouldn't want to live in a world where if I don't say I love jesus than I go to hell. and thank god I don't! as hard as it might be for you to beleive, there is a reason plants like mistletow exist, they are natures abortion drug. I'm sorry but if my mother had been a teenager when she had me, if she had been hoping to become a doctor and then I came into existance, I love her enough to know that it would have screwed us both over royally. I love her enough, to want her to choose herself over me. That way she could go to school, meet a man who actually cared about her, have my brother and sister and live happily ever after. btw, I know that god loves me as I am, he made me pro abortion and I'm glad he did.
by lotteyH on March 23rd, 2010
You just said it all. Thank you! Kill your own child so you can fulfill YOUR wants, and desires! And somehow you think that this is unselfish? Murder your own child so YOU can become a doctor! And you think you can see? Grey you say? Maybe that child that was murdered would have been the doctor! Maybe the doctor who would have cured cancer if he wasn`t murdered by his/her own mother and father so they could make all THIER dreams come true! But you see no evil in this? The truth is in the light, not in the grey!
by itisihere on March 23rd, 2010
I think you are missing the point of what he was saying itishere. LotteyH said "I love her enough to know that it would have screwed us both over royally." Correct me if I am wrong lottery H, but it looks like he is saying that she would not have been able to support him, and both of them would have had ended up with a very shitty existence. That is not selfish, that is just common sense.
And also, the point you tried to make about that child being aborted is a weak argument on your part, that child could just as easily become the next Hitler, just as easily as he could cure cancer.
And also, in your first comment you made itishere, you said "And you are murderers if you kill that baby!". Well first, doctors are not going into nurseries and stabbing babies. They are removing the building blocks of a human inside the womb. and second, for it to be a baby, it has to be born. In the womb, it is a fetus.
by grim545 on March 31st, 2010
thankyou, that's the biggest problem with this whole argument, people throw around the word murder like it explains everything.
by lotteyH on April 1st, 2010
Too true. That happens in every debate on this I have ever been in. It has to be alive for someone to be able to kill it.
by grim545 on April 3rd, 2010
Since you're so above and beyond morally, how many of the "children" that you have "saved" have you adopted?
by Rinky Dinky Do on April 23rd, 2010
i was 5 months pregnant with twin boys and had two horrible misscarriages and it wasnt until then i really was against abortion. NOBODY should have the right to kill their babies (dont comment saying they arent babies bullshit cuz they are) when there are women out there dying to have children but they cant. there will always be a loving home waiting for them on the other side if you dont want to be there for them, thats where you have the choice should i be a mom or be a doctor... Adoption. you all are cruel terrible discusting people if you can go in and say hey i had some sex and accidently got pregnant can you go head and take care of this for me. how could you live with yourself knowing that you tore apart your baby's body limb from limb i hope you have nightmeres the rest of your lives. It makes me so sad to think that a mother can do that. Hope you all amount to something that you killed your baby to accomplish. I love you my unborn babies and ill never forget the joy that you brought me for 5 months. you have truely made me a better person.
by abrown679 on April 26th, 2010
abrown: if you don't like abortion DON'T HAVE ONE! Just because you had a miscarriage or ten, doesn't give you the right to tell anybody else what to do with their lives. Unless, of course, you put your money where your mouth is an adopt a bunch of kids yourself, then you can talk.
by Rinky Dinky Do on April 27th, 2010
rinky dinky do: I adopted 7.
by abrown679 on April 27th, 2010
abrown: "NOBODY should have the right to kill their babies (dont comment saying they arent babies bullshit cuz they are)" Do you think this makes you right? You didn't even say anything that could support your view.
The women that have abortions are not killing babies. They are not throwing them off roofs, or running them over. They are killing the building blocks of a child.
I would also like to add that attacking people that may have had an abortion does not make you a better person. The sympathy some people may feel for you will be lost when you say the things about people that may need to go through with abortion. You don't know the situation that some of these women are in. They may need to have the abortion to live, or have a good life.
You also make it seem like a women dances into the hospital, and sings that she wants an abortion.
Do us all a favor, and go read a biology book and learn something about abortion. I want to debate my opinion, not listen to someone argue like a three year old about something they disagree with.
by grim545 on April 27th, 2010
grim: "The women that have abortions are not killing babies. They are not throwing them off roofs, or running them over" if we want to cut and paste... I have read a biology book and do you know how abortion works? its not just some magic spell that makes you not pregnant anymore.. i wont get graphic because theres no need to if somebody wants to do that to their child then whatever, i am a better person because of my sons and thats all, i never said i was Better than anybody who got an abortion, why dont you read and not put words in my mouth. I understand the need for somebody to have an abortion to have the life they were going to have, Dont spread your legs if you arent willing to be a mother. If you want to have sex wait til you have acheived your goal of being a doctor or whatever... so you dont have to kill your unborn baby.
by abrown679 on April 27th, 2010
Exactly what point where you trying to make with that quote? You see when I did, I actually did it for a reason.
Yes I know how abortion works.
I am not putting words in your mouth. I am telling you how you are acting. You see, when you talk down to people, you are being condescending, which means you think you are a better person that others.
Why attack women who may have had an abortion, but say in certain circumstances, it is ok to have an abortion?
Also, you can't kill a fetus. Because it is not alive.
by grim545 on April 28th, 2010
it is alive it has a fucking heartbeat... does something dead have a heartbeat? and your the one talking down to me i am no better then the next person. im not saying i am better then women who have abortions im saying losing babies made me a better person, asshole. Im done with this arguement. your obviously not listening to anything, all i have said is dont have unprotected sex if your not willing to put the life you wanted on hold for 9 months. how is that wrong? you tell me.
by abrown679 on April 28th, 2010
I never said anything against the keep your legs closed argument. It is pretty much the best idea. Can you tell me where I said that was wrong?
Me an asshole? Why don't you go read your speech on women who have had abortions are cruel, terrible, disgusting people. And no you are not just saying don't have sex if you don't want the baby. You attacked women who may have had abortions as if they were mass murders.
Also, the fetus doesn't start off with a heart beat. It eventually gets that heart beat, and thats when most people say it is illegal to have the abortion. Even with the heart beat, that doesn't make it a human being, simply because it can't live outside the mother. That means that it is not separate from the mother, which means in can't be a life.
I am debating my opinion about abortion. Not talking down to you. You however have attacked women that have had abortions, and you are acting like a small child that thinks throwing in "fucking", and "asshole" makes you seem right or stronger. ( Before you point out that I talked down to you in that last statement, I would like to add that when you insult someone, and or act like a 5 year old, you will be treated like a 5 year old. So yes, I was talking down to you with my last statement.)
by grim545 on April 28th, 2010
I need to ask however. Are you really done with this argument? I would really like to know, so I can make sure I don't have to log back on here and check to see if you will continue to act like a 5 year old.
by grim545 on April 28th, 2010
i apologize you are right grim. have a great day.
by abrown679 on April 29th, 2010
Thank you.
by grim545 on April 29th, 2010
you are wrong actually, but ill give in and let you think what you want its not like you can go have an abortion.
by abrown679 on April 30th, 2010
I'd have with agree with grim on this this one. How you present your argument is half the battle. being condesending and calling people names is not debating. we should be arguing facts here. for example, abrown, I would like to here any evidence you have that supports your argument "there will always be a loving home waiting for them on the other side if you dont want to be there for them". Something like statistics on abortions last year and statistics on families looking to adopt last year.
by lotteyH on April 30th, 2010
LotteyH: That was the point I was trying to make. I must not have done a good job.
abrown679: If you are going to leave the argument. Then leave. Coming back and trying to get the final word does nothing but reinforce my previous comment of you acting like a 5 year old. If you honestly believe that I am wrong. You wouldn't say you are leaving unless you realize that you are wrong. And yes, I in fact, can not have an abortion.
by grim545 on April 30th, 2010
first you said 3 year old at least i moved up in your eyes.
by abrown679 on April 30th, 2010
and lottey: i am certain that there are mothers out there who can not have children that would love to adopt... if your infertile its the worst feeling in the world and to know that there are mothers out there who arent ready to take on that responsibility is the only thing keeping their heads held high, ready to help them out. thank you for not being rude to me, grim took my words the wrong way the first comment that i left and hated me and my opinion ever since. This is a debate, grim you keep saying that women are killing the building blocks of a child... that alone is enough, to have the potential of being their child. they made this amazing thing growing inside of her and everything happens for a reason, i cant have kids. Thats Facts. And the fact is it makes me mad that people can have kids and they kill it not realizing how truely lucky they are. I am mad. but its okay because i do believe everything happens for a reason. I cant have kids so i can help the kids that dont have mothers who are ready to take on that "burden" if you will. Put it up for adoption. its 9 months to make someone like me the most thankful person in the world. Goodnight.
by abrown679 on April 30th, 2010
Ok. "could you live with yourself knowing that you tore apart your baby's body limb from limb i hope you have nightmeres the rest of your lives. It makes me so sad to think that a mother can do that. Hope you all amount to something that you killed your baby to accomplish." In this certain section. We can infer that you are being condescending towards women that have had an abortion. This comment also shows that you believe women are basically murders. How did I misinterpret?
I hated you because of the things you said about women that may have had an abortion. You see, when you say mean things, most people will hate you for it.
Also, just because it has potential to be a child, doesn't mean we should get rid of abortion.
I try not to argue if abortion is right or wrong, I try to argue that the choice should be there. No one is going around saying women have to have an abortion, it is just an option for women. Some put the child up for adoption, and some have the abortion.
by grim545 on May 1st, 2010
http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/ are you telling me that these arent human beings that they are just abnormal growths in the womb? A picture is worth a thousand words. and if you dont think these are bad in any way... well i dont know then. i tried.
by abrown679 on May 1st, 2010
http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/ are you telling me that these arent human beings that they are just abnormal growths in the womb? A picture is worth a thousand words. and if you dont think these are bad in any way... well i dont know then. i tried.
by abrown679 on May 1st, 2010
The Second Trimester
The D&E (dilation and extraction) is the most common type of second trimester abortion. During this procedure, the mother's cervix must be dilated much more than in a first trimester abortion simply because her baby is now too large to pull it from the uterus solely by using the suction machine.
After sufficient dilation is accomplished, the abortionist begins the D&E procedure by rupturing the amniotic sac which contains the unborn child. He then begins the process of dismembering the baby and pulling it out of the uterus in pieces. To do this, the abortionist uses suction as well as surgical forceps which basically act like a pair of pliers. He inserts this instrument into the uterus and starts to open and close it until a part of the baby or placenta is grasped. That piece is torn off and is pulled out. This process is repeated until the abortionist feels that the procedure has been completed.
Sometimes, the baby's skull is too large to pull out of the uterus, so the abortionist must first crush it with the forceps. The abortionist will know that the child's skull has been sufficiently collapsed when the baby's brains flow out of the uterus. Among abortionists this is called the "calvaria sign" and it signals that the skull will then be much easier to remove.
Once the abortionist has pulled out everything he can feel with the forceps, he will use a curette to scrape any remaining parts off the sides of the uterus. After that, the suction machine can be used again to vacuum up whatever debris is still in the uterus.
Throughout a D&E procedure, all of the extracted baby parts are placed on a tray where they are then reassembled. This is done to make certain that the entire baby is accounted for and that no parts are left behind.
One way that the D&E procedure is often made easier is by killing the baby a day or so before the procedure is scheduled. This extra step is generally referred to as a "ditch" and is accomplished by inserting a long needle through the mother's abdomen and into the heart of her baby. Then, a chemical agent - usually digoxin - is injected through the needle causing the child's death. The advantage of doing this is that the feticidal agent (digoxin) causes the child's body to soften, making the dismemberment and removal process much easier. Despite that advantage, however, ditching does have one potential downside. Because the chemical used to kill the baby is toxic, it is crucial for the abortionist to know that he has inserted the needle into the baby and not the mother. To verify that, the abortionist will sometimes let go of the needle before injecting the drug and see if it jumps around independent of the mom's movements. If so, he knows that he has hit the baby and can proceed. (This part of the ditching process is sometimes referred to as "harpooning the whale").
A variation of the D&E is called intact D&E. In this procedure, the baby is not pulled out in pieces but removed whole. Normally, the abortionist will use a feticidal chemical to kill the baby first or he will position the baby so that he can crush its skull. However, in some cases the baby will actually survive the procedure and emerge alive. In the abortion industry, live births are referred to as "The Dreaded Complication."
Since most Intact D&E abortions are performed on babies who are too young to survive once separated from the mother, the usual response to a live birth is to simply set the child aside and allow it to die on its own. The abortion industry calls this practice "comfort care." In some cases, abortionists have been observed actively killing the child by drowning it, crushing its tracheal tube, or snapping its neck.
Another type of second trimester procedure is known as instillation. This procedure begins with the abortionist sticking a long needle through the mother's abdomen and into the baby's amniotic fluid sac. A substantial amount of amniotic fluid is then drained from the sac and repl
by abrown679 on May 1st, 2010
A fetus is not a life. It doesn't matter what pictures you show, or what you say to say to make it seem immoral you can't. You have any idea how many times pro-life supporters show these picture? A lot of these are fakes, or other problems with the fetus that have nothing to do with abortion. Anyone can tell these are fakes. Some of those "aborted babies" look like they around the age of 2 or 3.
by grim545 on May 2nd, 2010
are you serious? Those are not fakes and they are all under 9 months gestastion. they show the pictures because its true and effective. FAKES? are you kidding? the pictures of chopped up little body parts with rulers showing you how big they are are two or three years old? really? im sorry.
by abrown679 on May 2nd, 2010
ok.
by abrown679 on May 2nd, 2010
Good.
by grim545 on May 2nd, 2010
first, abrown I agree that is wrong to abort a baby that is three months old (because at that point it is fully formed and has nerves) but that doesn't answer my earlier point. yes, there are many women who cannot have children. But I would stipulate that there are a lot more women in the world getting abortions than there are women adopting children.
also I'm not sre if you read my earlier comment in this disscussion so I'm repost it for you:
my mom had a kid when she was 18, he's my brother and we both beleive in reincarnation. She knew absolutely nothing about raising a child. and even though she had the best intentions she screwed him up bad and ruined her carreer and marriage because of it. I've talked to him about it and her and they both agree that everyone would have been alot better off if she had had an abortion. so I geuss my point is, by making abortion illegal you are forcing alot of families into situations they are NOT ready for. and yes, these mom's could put the kid up for adoption but you have no idea how hard that is to do in reality. when your pregnant your hormones, and body, and heart are all screaming at you to raise and love this child, but that does not mean you can. anyone who thinks abortion should be ilegal has clearly never kept a child that they were not cabable of caring for.
by lotteyH on May 4th, 2010
Its not "murdering your own child" if the sperm and shit in your whom is less than 24 weeks old...then technically its nothing and it isnt murder..
by learn124 on May 27th, 2010
It is that simple of a concept.
Unfortunately, a lot of people can't accept that belief.
by grim545 on May 27th, 2010
Nobody is talking about murdering their own child, that's infanticide. They're talking about abortion which is the surgical removal of a fetus. A fetus is not a child anymore than an egg is a chicken.
by Rinky Dinky Do on May 28th, 2010
Exactly.
by grim545 on May 30th, 2010
A very hot button issue. Anytime you delve into it, that is terminating the life of the unborn and attempt to justify it in a legal sense the terms fetus and child go under the microscope. Science indicates a life is generated at conception, however, in order to eliminate personal responsibility, legal ramifications and the term murder, the word Fetus is the way out.
The term fetus is applicable when the unborn child is not wanted or is in a state of limbo if you will. The term is essential to afford the convenience factor. Fetus is used to offset an inconvenient truth. It's a viable tissue mass. Fetus is a term widely used to alleviate any culpability for ending the life of another human being. If conception was used as the guide line that would null and void the convenience, conscience factor.
Take yourself for instance, you were a fetus initially at the point of conception, if you were not planned. You became a human being when your parents decided not to abort. If your parents wanted a child and planned the pregnancy, then you were a human being at the point of conception.
by abrown679 on June 6th, 2010
No. I became a human being when I was born.
The term fetus is used when the mass is in the womb. Whether its wanted or not. The term fetus is used because it is not a baby.
If conception was the guideline, we would have many more babies that are crippling many more families.
by grim545 on June 7th, 2010
The person who started this whole comment thing was talking about "murdering your own child" And i dont mean a parent fricking taking a knife to a ten year old, i mean ABORTION. This person seems to think that abortin is murdering your own child.
by learn124 on June 7th, 2010
Most people actually think that way. I have been in many arguments that I have had to explain what murder is.
by grim545 on June 7th, 2010
Whatever makes y'all happy for as long as you don't try to tell me what to think and do. Something which is waaaaay to late for you not to do.
BTW, how do y'all feel about saving the life of a child that is already here, huh?
by Rinky Dinky Do on June 8th, 2010
I am all for it.
by grim545 on June 8th, 2010
It is legal now so why do you call it murder. Murder is a legal term, not a religious one. Having said that, keep you nose out of MY business.
by mrrw on June 12th, 2010
Your business?? You are a man. Do you perform abortions?
by abrown679 on June 13th, 2010
I do not. But, I don't try to control other's lives because of my religion.
Stay out of my business.
by mrrw on June 13th, 2010
I do not. But, I don't try to control other's lives because of my religion.
Stay out of my business.
by mrrw on June 13th, 2010
is still dont understand "stay out of my buisness." its not your business. unless you actually give abortions.
by abrown679 on June 14th, 2010
Sorry abrown679, I thought you were intelligent enough to understand what I was saying. I was saying, keep your nose out of other people's business. Is that clear enough?
by mrrw on June 14th, 2010
yes now i understand, i thought you were intellegent enough to know the difference between "my" and "other people" my bad.
by abrown679 on June 15th, 2010
It looks like mrrw is using 'stay out of my business' as a general rule for everyone else.
by grim545 on June 18th, 2010
Thank you grim545!
by mrrw on June 19th, 2010
np mrrw
by grim545 on June 19th, 2010
thank you
by abrown679 on June 21st, 2010
you're welcome.
by grim545 on June 21st, 2010
you're welcome.
by grim545 on June 21st, 2010
Aborted fetuses are not children.
by mrrw on August 28th, 2010
The problem is that nobody REALLY knows if the fetus is "alive" or not. We can speculate and guess - but unless we get a textbook from "God" specific to this issue, all we can do is guess based on science. But it's still guessing. So at the end of the day I think everyone comes to the conclusion: 'we just don't know'.
It "could" be alive and it in that case it would be murder. Or it might not be alive and it would just be nothing. At the end of the day - it COULD be either. We just don't really know - if we accept the hard truth that we aren't all-knowing.
On another note, if you believe the baby is alive - what about birth control? How far do you take it? Should we use condoms? They also stop the potential for a new human to be born. Maybe we should.
At the same time, if you want the government to stay out of your business and let you decide what you should be able to do - how far do we take that? Should we allow people to murder and steal and keep the government out of that too?
I tend to be a libertarian so I like to keep the government out of my business and only use them when necessary. This is a tough argument because nobody really knows.
So what do we do when we don't know? Well we could look at what we DO know. We know that ending a pregnancy keeps the child from being born. That's great for some people's situations. However, we also know that ending a pregnancy can cause a host of mental problems/guilt that haunt a person for years.
I personally think that you would be better off NOT having an abortion because of the risk of mental problems and more that could ruin your life. You could put the child up for adoption if it isn't your time. And obviously not having sex is an easy way to make sure you don't get pregnant (in most cases)
That's the conclusion I come to using the information we DO know.
by invisibleyellow on September 13th, 2010
Do you think that most of the women that choose to get an abortion really want to hear that they are murdering a child or that they are sick for doing so? I had a really good friend once who became pregnant when she was 18 and was given a 50% chance of surviving the whole 9 months, and an even smaller chance of surviving the actual delivery. I know there are a lot of people out there that get abortions as a method of birth control, just for casual sex, and i think that is wrong. If they didn't go through the preventative measures then they should have to deal with their mistake. My friend ended up getting the abortion, and has had to remember it every single day of her life. All the murder and "could have grown up to be a doctor" jazz could be true, and it could just be a way to make people feel guilty. Maybe it is playing god, like some people say, maybe god had a reason for her to die, but maybe he had a reason for the baby to be aborted as well. it isn't for me to say, im sure i will find out some day but for now, I know that my friend turned her life around after getting pregnant and having the abortion because she didn't want to go through something like it ever again.
by pleasentanks on January 31st, 2011
Spelled sense wrong fucking horrible conservative dickhole. Have sone sense, and maybe some fucking empathy too. I'm guessing I'm about 15 years younger than you at the least. Why are you stupider than me?
by WhyMe? on February 8th, 2011
i don't know if you are talking to me because i don't see the word sense in my comment, but just for the record, "stupider" isn't a word, nor is "sone." ;)
by pleasentanks on February 9th, 2011
Is it any less selfish to force someone to live because you refuse to back down on your own personal ideals?
by jaykole on February 17th, 2011
How does Jehovah God view all of this? Exodus 21:22, 23 states: “In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him . . . But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul [life].” The original Hebrew does not limit the injury to the mother, but includes the baby also, as careful scholarship reveals.
Other ancient codes take the same view. Laws that protect the unborn existed centuries before Christ. The Hammurabic code did, and also ancient codes of the Sumerians, the Assyrians, the Hittites and the Persians prohibited the striking of a woman that caused the death of her unborn child. These laws were punitive and also involved compensation.
In a fear-inspiring way children are made in the womb, and they are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” As for our use of this inheritance, “each of us will render an account for himself to God.”—Ps. 127:3; Rom. 14:12.
by vew573 on March 3rd, 2011
BERNARD NATHANSON, M.D., once head of New York’s now defunct first and busiest abortion clinic, did a dramatic turnabout as he said: “I became convinced that as director of the clinic I had in fact presided over 60,000 deaths.” He added: “To vehemently deny that life begins when conception begins is absurd.
by vew573 on March 3rd, 2011
Again, religion being a prison for both believers and unbelievers.
Keep your religion out of my business!
by mrrw on March 3rd, 2011
Medically we decide death at the ceasing of Heartbeat and brain waves. There is a heart beat at 18-20 days. Measurable brain activity at 40 days. If we can use those for determinating death, then why would we not also use then to determine life?
by my2cents--Vote for Paul on April 1st, 2011
I like how so many people are worried about a small, unconscious collection of cells, yet fully alive animals and people with different beliefs can go die.
by Chain_of_command on April 1st, 2011
i think people spend too much time worrying about, and trying to protect the unborn, but none of the people that are completely opposed to abortion would probably go out and adopt children that are already alive...
by pleasentanks on April 1st, 2011
@lynx Do not put words in my mouth. Or presume that I am a religious bigot of some kind. I have no problem with people of different beliefs. As far as animals go I do not have a problem eating beef etc. I have just informed you of brain waves at 40 days so I would not an unconscious collection of cells. But of course you want to deflect to animals, etc. As the brain activity at 40 days is very inconvenient fact that is just to early in the term for pro-choice people.
@pleasanttanks "but none of the people that are completely opposed to abortion"--That is a mighty big brush you are painting every pro-life person with there.
No I have not adopted. I have 3 children of my own and no I do not plan to adopt. But there are plenty of people waiting to adopt.
by my2cents--Vote for Paul on April 1st, 2011
I'm not saying your one of them, my2cents, I'm just saying its a common trend.
by Chain_of_command on April 1st, 2011
But lynx you were speaking to me so how else am I supposed to take that? I personally do not any person that feels that way about people of other faiths, we do not agree with them and would like for them to find the Truth but would never wish harm to them.
by my2cents--Vote for Paul on April 2nd, 2011
@my2cents thats not exactly what i meant to say. I said they probably wouldn't (sorry i didn't word that very well;)
by pleasentanks on April 2nd, 2011