Is it possible to create a perpetual motion machine that can create electricity eternally?

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• What if the perpetual motion machine was made on a larger scale allowing you to use a fraction of its motion to create energy without robbing from the perpetual motion?

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  by batdog on October 12th, 2008

• Not being a physicist, I can't help with that (but I hope someone does!).

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  by Anonymous on October 12th, 2008

• According to what theory is it possible? The 2nd law of thermodynamics is supposed to rule out the possibility of a perpetual motion machine.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

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  by yeroco on December 28th, 2008

• Maybe just the theory in these people's heads - the ones who keep trying to design these things! I'm no physics expert, I was going on information from experience where my engineer father keeps geting requests to test perpertual motion machines - so people are trying whether real theory supports it ot not (I think what I wrote here would have made a better answer than what I originally wrote!).
  Cheers on the correction :)

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  by Anonymous on December 28th, 2008

• Many people have an intuitive feeling that energy can be extracted repeatedly or continuously from gravity or permanent magnets. That's what most of the designs I've seen are based on (a classical example is the overbalancing wheel). The problem is in the details... and intuition is not always great at seeing the details, and they may not even see the problem when they've actually built it. They will often blame the non-functioning of the device on sticky bearings, or machine tolerances, or some other error or sloppiness of construction, rather than a fundamental flaw in the design. Just my two cents :)

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  by yeroco on December 28th, 2008

• These things are theoretically possible in such ways as the Carnot Cycle

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  by Mendtos on December 28th, 2008

• The Carnot cycle's efficiency is determined by the equation 1 - (Tc/Th). That means that it's not possible to achieve an efficiency of greater than 100%, which is required for a perpetual motion machine.

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  by yeroco on December 28th, 2008

• That is the efficiency of a heat engine. The Carnot Cycle is a theoretical cycle that is reversible, effectively having an efficiency of 100%.

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  by Mendtos on December 28th, 2008

• You can find the efficiency formula for the Carnot cycle here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_Cycle#The_Carnot_cycle_2
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_Cycle#The_Carnot_cycle_2
  
  To achieve an efficiency of 100%, you'd need a Tc = 0K or absolute zero. The third law of thermodynamics states that it's impossible to achieve absolute zero. Therefore, you cannot achieve 100% efficiency, ever, if the laws of thermodynamics are correct (and so far no one has shown them to be incorrect). And for a perpetual motion machine to be at all useful, you need greater than 100% efficiency.

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  by yeroco on December 28th, 2008

• Theoretical doesn't mean you can actually do it so all

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  by Mendtos on December 28th, 2008

• Interesting thread! I like the last comment before mine - couldn't agree more! :)

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  by Anonymous on December 28th, 2008

• Thanks for the support Tani!

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  by Mendtos on December 28th, 2008

• Theoretical is one thing..and laws..such as thermodynamics are another. Friction is "theoretically" impossible to eliminate and there goes perpetual motion. Please notify me immediately when friction can be eliminated.

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  by jaydee on February 19th, 2011