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by Stableboy on April 2nd, 2007
Religion at it's best is organized and formalized spirituality -- a well designed path for spiritual development that has been refined and honed over the years.
Religion at it's worst is brainwashing, suppressive, and provides the basis for violence, evil, and oppression.
So I think it's a mistake to just despise religion out of hand: the passion with which you hold that view will preclude you from seeing both sides, which is important if you want to understand anything thoroughly.
Also, just a footnote: belief in God is not a requirement for all religions, so there's a bit of cross-talk in your question: you can have religion without a belief in God, you can have a belief in God without religion, you can have spirituality which includes or does not include God and omits religion, etc. The range of possible variations on these elements is pretty wide.
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You're reading I believe in god, but I despise religion. Is that normal or weird?
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Comments
I agree with the direction of this answer. In fact, I am more or less an atheist, but I consider myself fairly religious. For me, religion can only be man-made doctrine, but a religious sense can occur with a vision of our importance to each other--without any reference to any obligation to something transcending our social relationships.
by Darrol P on January 11th, 2008
Well we're aimed in somewhat the same direction. I think "spiritual development" is a meaningful phrase which doesn't require any sort of magical or metaphysical thinking. As a Zen student, that is my main focus. The miracles and spirits are like decorative but non-functional trappings to me: ok, but not really needed. The problem is that those with a scientific mindset often throw out the baby with the bathwater: just because one doesn't believe in God doesn't let them off the hook for their own spiritual development.
by Stableboy on January 11th, 2008
very well stated, stableboy.
by factoid master on October 28th, 2008
I feel sorry for you Darrol saying that you are an atheist..God is Real and is every where all the time ...What you Sow is What you shall Reap! No disrespect,but I Pray you think it over. God Bless!
by Anonymous on November 6th, 2008
Some atheists say they are out of spite to religions. I believe that religion is Anti-God because rather than talk about God or talk to God they want to wrestle your mind until you give in. One day it will get violent... oh, wait, that already happened.
by Nevermind on June 10th, 2009
Responding to anonymous above, i feel sorry that you should feel sorrow for Darrol. Why is it that his view on life should be disrespected by your belief when one is built on what is known and the other, what is thought to be known. I'll leave you to decide who is who.
But i agree wholeheartedly with Sableboy. Religion, as anything does, has positives and negatives. Unfortunately for myself, the negatives over the years have accumulated and religion itself seems a shell. With it, for me, the concept of god was dispersed, although they are not implicitly connected.
I attended Buddhism teachings for some time, finding solace in the meditations and moral lessons, but becoming frustrated with the premise of reincarnation and other, more 'magical', elements of the teachings. Buddhism can be easily seen as a philosophy until reincarnation and spiritual karma is brought in, at which point i thing it places its toe over the line into the world of religions.
by tboarder on June 13th, 2009
Well in Zen, that stuff is generally discarded. I think Zen is the purest form of Buddhism -- study yourself, forget metaphysics... the answers that matter can be found by observing your own life.
My general feeling is that religion starts out being beneficial for most people, and then becomes a prison which prevents further development. Even the Buddha recognized this, saying that one must discard the raft after crossing the river, not become attached to it.
by HasntBeen on June 14th, 2009
I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis. The problem is that your description of "religion at its best" is but a idealistic fairytale that does not exist in the real world.
My take on "religion" as it is practiced in modern times is summarized in a wonderfully truthful quote from Karl Marx:
"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right
Part of this quote is often taken out of context and read: "Religion is the opium of the people", sans an appropriate ellipsis inserted. I think the whole quotation is even more powerful.
Basically what Marx is saying is that in this cold, cruel world, religion, like a narcotic, really does noting to remedy the underlying cause of the problems but rather numbs the sensibilities and reduces rational man into a believer of Utopian fairytales - they are numbed to their suffering but rendered even less able to fix the problems causing the pain. Religion then becomes a part of the problem.
I believe in a creator-sustainer-supreme being. But, having been part of the "show" for many years, now I adamantly refuse to live my life according to the denominational tripe that most organized religions offer.
by GaiasPet on May 29th, 2010
Well I experienced "religion at it's best" firsthand, so I don't agree with your blanket condemnation. And I don't think it's likely that there are any invisible beings with super-powers, so I think we're just going to have to stay disagreed in general.
by HasntBeen on May 29th, 2010
Ahh, but was this "firsthand" experience one of true enlightenment or merely the consumption of a spiritual opiate?
Please note that my answer was in response to quite specific criteria and was not a "blanket condemnation".
The response was that:Religion at it's best is organized and formalized spirituality -- a well designed path for spiritual development that has been refined and honed over the years."
So, may I ask (and I am curious as I do not know your religion: How long has this organized belief system that you subscribe to existed?
Who designed your "path". You? A "guru" or "apostle"?
And over how many years has this religion been honed and perfected?
And finally, the crucial question: What difference is your religion making to humanity?
by GaiasPet on May 29th, 2010
No, actually I'm not interested in the discussion. Sorry.
by HasntBeen on May 29th, 2010
No apology necessary, H.B.
We understand: Opiates generally do induce apathy and a relatively short attention span.
by GaiasPet on June 1st, 2010
If you're going to be a jackass about it, do it on somebody else' thread. You have no idea how thoroughly I could cover this topic. I've done it so many times, I'm bored with it.
by HasntBeen on June 1st, 2010
"A man's soul is most well manifested when he is angry."
So, if you are "...not interested..." in the discussion and the topic is so boring then why did you contribute to this thread in the first place? Entertainment, I would presume.
What you wrote is true, I have no idea how well you can cover this topic. But it irrelevant anyway. Since it is a religion/God topic, I kinda like the idea you proffer in your profile and I quote your words: "Religion: I do not believe in God, nor can I prove he doesn't exist. It's fun to argue about, though."
However well you can or cannot cover the topic of religion/deities will not change or prove or disprove the truth. (Whatever that "truth" may be at the time.) Most such arguments here truly seem to be merely for personal entertainment rather than edification or enlightenment anyway.
For topics in the realm of philosophy, "proof" (or disproof) is not merely elusive - persuasive argument abounds - but proofs are essentially non-existent.
"Jackass"? Too funny. Gee, for a topic that you consider to be "fun" and can cover SO well, you sure get kinda grumpy about it, huh? Perhaps you should consider changing sports?
by GaiasPet on June 2nd, 2010
Why did I contribute to the thread? I wrote the answer. 3 years ago. Please pay attention.
by HasntBeen on June 2nd, 2010