by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on March 20th, 2009

Joseph Smith was a fraud  and Eisegete

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Joseph Smith took Blood Oathes while he was a Free Mason. Than inserted these same Blood Oathes into his church. While at Carthage he was shot by a crowd containing Masons. Was he shot for disclosing the Mason Oathes and not as a Matyr?

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  • by the Otter on March 22nd, 2009

    the Otter

    Out of curiosity, do you really think the two to be mutually exclusive? If, as both Joseph and the Freemasons themselves claimed, the Masonic rituals were descended from the Lord’s revealed temple ordinances, then Joseph was either trying to restore them to their proper place, or actually succeeded in doing so. (Obviously one’s assessment of the veracity of his calling will determine which is deemed accurate.)

    In short, whether or not the Masonic rituals figured into Joseph’s murder is certainly an interesting question, but remains irrelevant to the terminology. He was a martyr, either way.

    HTH!

    Comments
    • If he were killrd for runnning from the law (or attempting) and this were to be because of his printing his own monies and attempting to steal this money... if that were why he was shot... would he be a matyr?

      Joseph Smith was a fraud  and Eisegete

      by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on March 22nd, 2009

    • Let’s ask the Dictionary widget, which uses the Oxford American Dictionary:
       
      martyr: a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs
       
      So if an individual were to engage in those activities as a part of his or her religious beliefs and were killed as a result of said religious beliefs, then yes, that individual would—by definition—be a martyr.

      the Otter

      by the Otter on March 23rd, 2009

    • Joseph was killed due to his upsetting peoples in his own church. This was inpart from his polygamist afairs with married women. Burning down the in Nauvoo Expositor. He was jailed for legal reasons as well. He had a pistol smuggled into the jail.
      This hardly sounds like a matyr, otter

      Joseph Smith was a fraud  and Eisegete

      by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on March 23rd, 2009

    • Last I checked, Jesus was killed due to his upsetting people in His own Church. Furthermore:
       
      • There is no evidence that Joseph ever had polygamous “affairs” with anyone, nor that he ever had sexual relations with anyone else’s wife. In fact, the DNA evidence has thus far shown a surprising lack of evidence.
       
      • The Nauvoo Expositor was destroyed pursuant to the laws of the state of Illinois, following a fourteen-hour debate by the Nauvoo City Council, who instructed Mayor Joseph Smith Jr. to deliver the punishment.
       
      • While it can certainly be argued that the pistol was “smuggled” into the jail, Joseph had nothing to do what that; a friend brought it in, then gave it to Joseph in hopes that he (Joseph) would be able to defend himself and his friends. Granted, he accepted the gift, but so would I. Remember, he went there knowing full well that he wouldn’t make it out alive, and once he saw that his friends and brother refused to he hoped to spare his friends and brother the same fate.
       
      Was Joseph a martyr? Well, the Bible speaks of martyrs that killed some or all of their oppressors—Samson, for example, comes to mind. If you discount Joseph’s martyrdom, you have to discount the others, as well. (And while I know it’s not exactly the same, do you honestly believe no one died as a result of the destruction at the death of the Savior?)

      the Otter

      by the Otter on March 23rd, 2009

    • -In fact, the DNA evidence has thus far shown a surprising lack of evidence.-
      Since we are putting so much authority in DNA, what about those descendants of Ham..ah ER Asia (Indians).

      Joseph Smith was a fraud  and Eisegete

      by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on March 24th, 2009

    • Yes, the DNA evidence has shown a link between Mesoamericans and ancient Israel, too. You just have to read the work of people that actually work with DNA—you know, the kind of people that are actually qualified and therefore don’t garner as much popular press as a blowhard whose expertise is in a completely different area.

      the Otter

      by the Otter on March 24th, 2009

    • I have never seen any credable evidence that Joseph Smith jr. was ever a mason of any degree, it is totally against all the teachings he promoted . brigham young ended as a 33rd degree mason if you can believe what you read ,with all the mason crap in the utah church it seems to be true . I would be surprised if the catholic /masons were not involved in Josephs murder. The pope ordered the murder of abe lincoln and all involved in that were catholic/masons. In the history of the world Joseph was far more important.

      william6

      by william6 on June 17th, 2011

    • Polygamy was something Old Joe said was a disgusting practice. He strongly preached against it. Well in public he did anyways. All the while, in private he had 3 other wives than Emma.

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