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by Ridiculous on March 10th, 2009
Are conservatives worried that "Occupy Wall Street" is the beginning of a socialist revolution?
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Why are you a socialist?
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You're reading Why is there such a stigma around the word, 'socialism'?
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Comments
The people in power decide how the common man should live his life in all forms of government. That is pretty much the definition of government. Nobody's government is bigger right now than the US government. And the word socialism was not around during the time of Jefferson but I feel quite confident that he would have supported a social democracy.
by Nathan Explosion on March 11th, 2009
What? Jefferson if anything was what you could call today a libertarian and all of his writing is the antithesis of what you could call socialism. There are some exceptions like his views on education. But for the most part he was for the smallest government possible with the most amount of freedom for the individual. "A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
Plus socialist governments historically have been the first to ban firearms. "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
Ok, here you go, this quote pretty much proves that Jefferson would not be for a democratic socialism, to include socialized health care: "The care of every man's soul belongs to himself. But what if he neglect the care of it? Well what if he neglect the care of his health or his estate, which would more nearly relate to the state. Will the magistrate make a law that he not be poor or sick? Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves. God himself will not save men against their wills." – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want for bread. – Thomas Jefferson. Now how can that not be viewed as an anti socialism quote?
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
# The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. – Thomas Jefferson. What part of not aiding them in their pursuits do you not understand?
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but a swindling futurity on a large scale. – Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson would have voted against a bailout or stimulus plan.
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. – Thomas Jefferson That is about as anti socialist as it gets...
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
Dependence leads to subservience. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. – Thomas Jefferson.
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. – Thomas Jefferson
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
Those are great quotes but they don't prove your point.. Alot can be taken out of context when looking back more than 200 years.. Democracy is not compatible with unregulated capitalism and Jefferson clearly knew this...
by Nathan Explosion on March 11th, 2009
Democratic Socialism as well as Libertarian Socialism are examples of socialism which do not call for the nationalization of the means of production.. I personally am in favor of Democratic Socialism.. The banks and financial institutions should be nationalized as well as healthcare in my opinion.
by Nathan Explosion on March 11th, 2009
Jefferson was very much against the nationalization of banks and healthcare.
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
I'm not so sure.. Do you really think so considering how much more we are paying for healthcare under the current system? And with the current financial crisis do you think he would be throwing his support in favor of these criminals running our financial institutions?
by Nathan Explosion on March 11th, 2009
What part of "The care of every man's soul belongs to himself. But what if he neglect the care of it? Well what if he neglect the care of his health or his estate, which would more nearly relate to the state. Will the magistrate make a law that he not be poor or sick? Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves. God himself will not save men against their wills." do you not understand regarding healthcare? As far as banks go, you are partly right, "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties
than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks
will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up
homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." but he was against a central government bank.
by Ridiculous on March 11th, 2009
This is currently happening with the banks... and not just american banks... Foreign investors already own much of the property entrusted to the government by the public.. But I suspect we are for the most point in agreement on these points... As far as your Jefferson quote about healthcare I'm just not convinced... Too much has changed since the late 18th century.. Nor does my opinion on the matter depend on whether or not T.J. would have approved, as much as I admire him...
by Nathan Explosion on March 11th, 2009
You know, just because Thomas Jefferson said something doesn't make it right.
by TheJoker on March 12th, 2009
It might not make it right, but I agree with him.
by Ridiculous on March 12th, 2009
Fair enough, he certainly was one of America's great thinkers!
by TheJoker on March 12th, 2009
But mostly my point was that Jefferson would not have supported a Social Democracy. In fact Jefferson said, "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
by Ridiculous on March 12th, 2009
Hehehe, good point, wasn't that the result of your recent presidential election?
by TheJoker on March 12th, 2009
I think you are taking the Jefferson quotes out of context.. He was the a founder of the Democratic Republican party... and he wrote at great length about democracy and clearly was in favor of it...
by Nathan Explosion on March 12th, 2009
As for his views on corporations he had this to say: "I hope we shall...crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country".
Doesn't sound very capitalist friendly to me.. But I know he was not anti-capitalism but definitely against corporations being allowed to turn into tryrannical forces.. I think he supported rational economic ideas of balance between governments and corporations via regulations..
by Nathan Explosion on March 12th, 2009