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by Anon on October 22nd, 2005
From a scientific standpoint, it depends whether you consider sound to be the actual sound waves or only the perception of those waves by an ear. For the first, a definite yes. For the second, no (unless forest critters don't count as someone).
Philosophically, there are many ways to answer. Personally, I see it as a metaphor for karma. Whatever someone or something does, it has results - even if no one observes it. Sound would be symbolic of the karmic results.
It goes back to the moral question - "If I don't get caught, is it still wrong to do ______?" Well, if someone is asking themselves that question, the answer is likely to be "yes."
Another parallel can be seen in a commonly used example from Chaos Theory - the "Butterfly Effect" - whereby the actions of a simple butterfly can (hypothetically) effect global weather patterns.
Of course, this question is a Zen koan, and as such it is important not to take it too literally. The main purpose of such koans is not that we must figure out the "right" answer, but rather that we open our minds in the process.
Who is a better leader a man of "wisdom" or a man of "Intellect"?
by andy11-11 on December 4th, 2010
| 2 people like this
Does anyone appreciate the sound reasons for egoism that Max Stirner provides in his Ego and It's own?
by nest on November 25th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
Is there really a thing called freedom or all we all trapped towards death?
by Kimi_T on February 4th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
If you define your own morality, then what compels you to be constant in what you currently deem to be "evil" (or "good")?
by PhileoTruth on December 8th, 2010
| 2 people like this
Which is the better existential novel, Camus' The Outsider, or Sartre's Nausea?
by nest on November 26th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
You're reading If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?
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Comments
From the point of view of the butterfly effect, a tree falling could lead to a hurricane, and they're loud
by jdoggiedogg on July 13th, 2006
Perfect answer.
by Jodie44 on December 9th, 2006
Yes yes, perfect answer.
by EverVigil on October 9th, 2008
You said, "The main purpose of such koans is not that we must figure out the 'right' answer, but rather that we open our minds in the process." This is an exceptionally insightful answer and one I'll remember. Some questions are, indeed, posed specifically to challenge our ability to think, to reason -- the very attributes of humans that make us different from other species.
by shsh38 on February 27th, 2010
was just thinking about the Old Question; "IF A TREE FALLS in the forest,and there's no one there to hear it,does it MAKE A SOUND?"
So can I ask I this question?
If Tree tree falls in the forest,and there's no one there to see it,did a tree fall? - (light waves/sound waves,etc).
According to science everything is made of Wave Motion.And if there is no one there with vocabulary to name everything?
We need sensors to experience everything in time and space.[the 5 senses].If we had different sensors to pick up different wave motion the world we create would appear very different.[example:if we had senses that picked up X-Rays,Gamma Ray's from outer space,Radio waves,etc].
"When you have been caught in the world of perception you are caught in a dream" - ACIM
Great book to recommend),Illusions:The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah. - by Richard Bach
by Kevin_C1062 on August 27th, 2010
Well @Kevin_, I suppose on one hand if you take the line that all trees will eventually fall at a random (or at least undetermined) point in the future, an unobserved tree in a forest starts to look like a big leafy version of Schrödinger's cat. On that basis, the tree has both fallen and not fallen at the same time until an observation collapses the wave function to one or other of those possibilities.
I agree with you that the same argument extends to "everything" - does unobserved reality exist at all other than as a set of probabilities? Niels Bohr (and others) would say it didn't. Uncle Albert would say that it did. Much as Einstein was great, good and much loved it's beginning to look like the Dane is having the last laugh (but only if there is someone there to hear him).
Overall I fully agree that many questions do not ultimately have concrete answers but the fun and wisdom comes from the debates about what those answers might be if they could be reached.
by Kiku on October 28th, 2011